Max Payne 3 Announced

[Stu]

Good. Max Payne finally became into an actually playable game.

I hope that the slow-mo has been ditched aswell.

It's fantastic news that you've at least played it so you're in a position to make such statements.

OH WAIT!

[A-J]

With metacritic review aggregate of over 85 for both Max Payne games, i can't imagine how you can call them bad, or over rated games.

Have you ever even played either of them ?

[Mr_Zombie]

Good. Max Payne finally became into an actually playable game.

I hope that the slow-mo has been ditched aswell.

Ive always seen Max Payne as an overrated game, but thats besides the point.

Ok, so obviously you didn't like the series (because none of those games were "nonplayable" or "overrated"), so why bother about the sequel? o_O

I've played through both of those games not so long ago (previously I've only seen and played parts of those games at my friend's house because my rig sucked when those games were released) and no, they're not overrated nor is it nostalgia that makes people think that those games were great. They are great. The style, the story (or rather, how is it told), the gameplay - all of those were parts of a great experience that both Max Payne games offers.

[Member_of_STARS]

Played them both. I can also understand why people like them. Max Payne phenomenon did not leave without a trace around where I live. But obviously people missed the main point of my original post, which was predictable.

Max Payne now is no different than any other franchise that has made an extreme makeover. A lot better games have gone through the same process and there have been minimal objections to how they have (or are turning) turned out.

Thats why I find this thread amusing.

The games are entirely based on a number of "coolness" factors/elements which people (here obviously aswell) make into something much bigger than they are. If Max Payne was an FPS, there would not nearly be as many positive praises towards it, even though it plays exactly like one.

Im not critisizing anyones opinion and Im not saying the games are terribad. But they are far from spectacular and the shock and horror this community feels over the obvious change in the franchise is, like I said, hypocritical.

[Stu]

So really it's more to do with you still not being able to get your head around Resident Evil 4 departing from the series roots and you proving a point, rather than you genuinely thinking Max Payne has "just" become a playable game?

[Member_of_STARS]

So really it's more to do with you still not being able to get your head around Resident Evil 4 departing from the series roots and you proving a point, rather than you genuinely thinking Max Payne has "just" become a playable game?

I didnt want to take it there.

But I guess, considering that you seem insulted, I hit the mark.

Theres no difference between mainstream and mainstream.

[A-J]

Consider this, Resident Evil 4 was different, but it was done by the same people, and didn't radically alter much cosmetically besides the gameplay mechanics for the most part.

Similarly, COD4 was a big departure from the series's roots, but it was a departure that the series creators, Infinity Ward, themselves handled/supervised.

Where as, Max Payne 3 isn't being done by the original creators at all, and most importantly of all, it has a different voice actor for Max

[Member_of_STARS]

Consider this, Resident Evil 4 was different, but it was [1]done by the same people, and [2]didn't radically alter much cosmetically besides the gameplay mechanics for the most part.

[1] Is that an excuse?
[2] Wrong

Similarly, COD4 was a big departure from the series's roots, but it was a departure that the series creators, Infinity Ward, themselves handled/supervised.

Wrong. COD4´s departure is actually very minimalistic. If youre thinking that the Call of Duty franchise has always been about WW2, then that is your misguided opinion. COD is about infantry firefights in various world theatres. All things considered, its a pretty young franchise, so modern setting is not a departure from the established franchise but rather a proper sequel material.

Vast majority of COD fans, both regular players and competitive gamers, have not objected the "departure" mainly because theres nothing to object to. The games have never been connected with each other to begin with.

"But MoS, its the story, theres no COD without WW2?" - also wrong. Just to make a preemptive statement. CODs main selling point has always been its exceptionally well-balanced MP.

Where as, Max Payne 3 isn't being done by the original creators at all, and most importantly of all, it has a different voice actor for Max

Semi-joke?

-

So, again. I can understand that people are pissed about MP3, but Im amused that they choose to ignore the irony in this situation.

[A-J]

[1] Is that an excuse?
[2] Wrong

1/ It's a simple enough statement.

2/ Don't see how, you just have full 3D aiming and faster enemies, besides that the tank controls are still there are your actions are just as restricted as the older games bar the context sensetive "A" button commands.

"But MoS, its the story, theres no COD without WW2?" - also wrong. Just to make a preemptive statement. CODs main selling point has always been its exceptionally well-balanced MP.

We're not talking about selling points, and the departure was substantial enough that the sequel to Modern Warfare is dropping the Call of Duty name altogether.

Semi-joke?

yes.

but other than that i'll just copy paste something someone on neogaf posted that pretty much sums the "hate" for max payne 3, for me atleast.

The original Max Payne writer is not involved
The noir style is gone
The original voice of Max Payne is not involved
The original developers (Remedy) are not involved
The character looks completely different
The trademark long coat is gone
The location has changed
It's daylight

and just based on these screens people are drawing parallel's to a bunch of other recent games like Uncharted, so it's going to get panned for that right off the start.

So, it's going to take nothing short of a miracle for this to not be a train wreck.

but Im amused that they choose to ignore the irony in this situation.

I don't get what the "irony" here is .. just because RE4 proved to be a successful departure for the series, doesn't mean every game that tries things differently has to be as well.

Something like Silent Hill being given to different developers would be a more valid comparison here, and the last silent hill was a pretty bad game.

[Mr_Zombie]

So, again. I can understand that people are pissed about MP3, but Im amused that they choose to ignore the irony in this situation.

What irony?
It's not like everyone here are so happy that RE series became what it is now; yes, people here (and not everyone) are enjoying RE4 and RE5, because they are great/good horror-action games with RE theme; however, many of us would love Capcom to return to RE roots.

[1] Is that an excuse?

To a some degree, yes. If the original creators of the game want it to turn into something different, to revolutionize it, they will change it, but they will still keep the theme, the style.

As A-J had written - Silent Hill is a great example here. Was SH4 different than SH1-3? Yes it was on almost every level; but even though there was no flashlight, no radio and other things, you could still tell that it's a Silent Hill game. On the other hand, Homecoming has everything you would think a Silent Hill game should have - yet it feels like a completely different experience.

Semi-joke?

Imagine Solid Snake voiced by someone else than David Hayter and you get the picture.

[Stu]

But I guess, considering that you seem insulted, I hit the mark.

How could possibly think my post made me seem insulted?

Full marks on admitting you're full of shit though haha

[Member_of_STARS]

1/ It's a simple enough statement.

It doesnt hold any water. You probably dont know 99% of the names involved with your own favourite franchise, the only exceptions being the director and maybe the producer. People are always stretching for straws once they start talking about "changed crew".

2/ Don't see how, you just have full 3D aiming and faster enemies, besides that the tank controls are still there are your actions are just as restricted as the older games bar the context sensetive "A" button commands.

If I were to describe you in technical detail, the changes in gameplay, atmosphere, pacing, objectives and how the game plays from A to B, it would take me too much time. Ive made a youtube video twice now, showcasing how RE4 does not use "tank controls", but instead uses chopped FPS controls and that tank controls have always been about fixed viewpoints. Im not going to do this again. Just throwing a comparison with an RC vehicle out there.

We're not talking about selling points, and the departure was substantial enough that the sequel to Modern Warfare is dropping the Call of Duty name altogether.

No. Wrong. Its not the modern setting that warranted the change in the name. Seriously now-

Call of Duty 6: Modern Warfare 2

There is no change. Its your own imagination. Let me ask you this, how long have you been with COD? Considering the demographic and the main platform around here, I would imagine that you got your first fix with COD3 (maybe) and really got into it with COD4, then COD5? Theres not a single COD game that is a continuation of the other one, storywise. They are all independant games that focus on one thing only- infantry battles in various world theatres. The fact that its been WW2 so far is not a telling of the franchises main point. COD5 was aimed to please both competitive and regular COD2 fans.

MW2 is not separating because COD4 was a "departure". Its separating because its turning into something else.

but other than that i'll just copy paste something someone on neogaf posted that pretty much sums the "hate" for max payne 3, for me atleast.

The original Max Payne writer is not involved
The noir style is gone
The original voice of Max Payne is not involved
The original developers (Remedy) are not involved
The character looks completely different
The trademark long coat is gone
The location has changed
It's daylight

Half of these things are fanboy drivel and dont even matter. Its the exact same thing RE "vets" have posted for years on RE forums and have been getting flack for. The only thing here that separated Max Payne from other games was the noir style. Everything else is changed because circumstances have changed (locations, time).

The issue with the original voice actor... I would have thought gamers had at least as much common sense to see that if someone ages past a point, he would need a different voice. Even if that isnt the real reason, it would still be plausible.

So, it's going to take nothing short of a miracle for this to not be a train wreck.

Would you like me to give you a list of my favourite franchises turned into mainstream garbage, which are technically and conceptually dumbed down and just trash, yet sold so well that they are getting sequels left and right?

I don't get what the "irony" here is .. just because RE4 proved to be a successful departure for the series, doesn't mean every game that tries things differently has to be as well.

Thats my point precisely. "Its cool for some games, not for others"

Hence, hypocrisy.


Zombie, most points apply to you aswell

Big Stu, reading your post, I just imagined you having a hard time getting a single word out of your mouth. And then you say Im full of shit? Haha.

[Darkmoon]

Remember boys and girls, personal attacks offend me personally, and my response is to personally violate you. Personally.

MoS, I'm likely missing something...but are you saying people are wrong for being pessimistic for being worried that this game is purely a cash in with none of the soul of the origional Max Payne games because other game series have been radically changed and some have worked...and some have sailed into the distance of the dark jungle aboard the Fail Boat? So because some of the changes in style are (although I can't think of one I liked more than the origional style) are good and some are bad it's hypocrosy to suspect this one will be bad because so far it contains a small sprinkle of Max Payne and a big heaping pile of 'moneyzplznow?'

That seems..

[Stu]

[QUOTE=Member_of_STARS;112570]Big Stu, reading your post, I just imagined you having a hard time getting a single word out of your mouth. [\QUOTE]

What does that even mean? It's a keyboard, that i type with my fingers, it's not the hardest thing in the world to do

But let's get it right...you actually are being petty about this, because some people are feeling how you feel after RE moved on, and you want to bask in it's glory because someone knows how you feel, irrespective or whether you've played (or even seen footage of) the new game.

[Member_of_STARS]

But let's get it right...you actually are being petty about this, because some people are feeling how you feel after RE moved on, and you want to bask in it's glory because someone knows how you feel, irrespective or whether you've played (or even seen footage of) the new game.

And... no. You didnt get it right. I dont care how you feel and neither do I care if you know how I felt. Thats not important. What is important is the fact that after all the changed franchises, its Max Payne, that gets this kind of attention. And people are using the exact same arguments that everyone else has, before.

For example. Did you notice that I was the only person on these forums who pointed out the blatant changes in Splinter Cell when its E3 gameplay videos were shown?

So lets get this right. You dont like to be called hypocritical so you take it down to RE4 arguments, just because you could say "its been 5 years, get over it, its stupid"?

Remember boys and girls, personal attacks offend me personally, and my response is to personally violate you. Personally.

None of that has happened here yet. Holster that violator.

MoS, I'm likely missing something...but are you saying people are wrong for being pessimistic for being worried that this game is purely a cash in with none of the soul of the origional Max Payne games because other game series have been radically changed and some have worked...and some have sailed into the distance of the dark jungle aboard the Fail Boat? So because some of the changes in style are (although I can't think of one I liked more than the origional style) are good and some are bad it's hypocrosy to suspect this one will be bad because so far it contains a small sprinkle of Max Payne and a big heaping pile of 'moneyzplznow?'

A) Its not wrong to be pissed about MP3-s departure from what made the franchise great in the first place.
B) Its wrong to not to see the irony in this situation, your own hypocrisy and then, instead of accepting that youre often more biased than you seem, defend your misguided position religiously, just so your ego wouldnt get bruised.

Rarely do franchises change because of an artistic problem. They all change for money. The franchises I loved that took the change-route, have mostly been financially very, very successful, yet ditched the basics completely. Theres quite a number of them now.

C) Everything else past B is just trolling and light-hearted jabbing-stabbing at each other. No harm done.