Mass Effect 3

[Carnivol]

@Member_of_STARS

Depends. Really. (Also, Half-Life 1 + expansions and at least the main game of Half-Life 2 has god awful music handling. Mostly just random linear tracks being blasted off from start to end/silence every now and then at the start of various event triggers. Don't remember if Ep1-2 ever did anything about that.)

Anyway, of course background music doesn't have to be the type of thing that can be listened to on its own, but, seriously, the music in Mass Effect really is forgettable and a lot of it really just got on my nerves at times (in a way where I feel it rarely contributed with much more than just ploinking out random synth noises - something that easily can be worked into something slightly more ... interesting).

Personally, I prefer context sensitive music (when done right). But I'm not really happy with how... say... Gears of War and Resident Evil 4-5 handles context sensitive music, but I really like to bring up a couple of recent games as samples of how cinematic music can be done contextually:

Nier and Red Faction: Guerrilla.

Nier is without doubt one of the most amazing soundtracks this gen, but what its amazing soundtrack album doesn't show is that the entire build up in the tunes, pacing and instruments/vocals are all altering with the context of the gameplay. Nier's soundtrack is a piece of art on its own. A cultural treasure, if you want. Red Faction: Guerrilla on the other hand, composed by the one and only Jake Kaufman (aka Virt in the remix community), does not have a proper soundtrack CD with neatly mixed versions of the tunes (and, to be honest, I probably wouldn't listen to any of that stuff on its own anyway, but got plenty of Virt/Kaufman tracks on my playlists). However, like you seem to feel about ME's soundtracks, Guerrilla really wouldn't be the same without it. 'Cause, seriously, the way that game pulls of transitions in the music based on the on-screen stuff is just... mind-blowingly awesome (and the music is just always... "right".)

If they're able to pull off this kind of stuff with Clint Mansell onboard -which I hope is what they're aiming for, going by the comments about player actions- I'm all in.

It's really all a matter of what the sound team in general's capable of, how versatile the composers are and what their source/target material is. (Could of course also take a look at how Dark Void's soundtrack turned out with Bear McCreary on board. Amazing results.) Of course, the Mass Effect team might be taking on more than they can handle (which is where I'll put the blame if this turns out to be a disaster)

[Enetirnel]

Considering the majority of the music I listen to is VGM, I personally found the Mass Effect soundtracks to be interesting. However, the first one seemed to be more memorable to me than the second with only a few tracks standing out and getting caught in my head.

It rarely happens, but I found the music added to the scenes... such as getting through all of the Geth before you found and rescued Liara in the first game. For instance, I enjoy listening to the music and working out what songs - although with a different sound, are variations of some of the more main themes used in the game but still fitting for the scenes.

However, Jack Wall and Sam Sam Hulick have already stated they aren't involved in ME3's soundtrack. I don't know if Richard Jacques, Jimmy Hinson (known as Big Giant Circles or "BGC" in the arrangement/ReMix groups such as OverClocked ReMix) is involved in it, or if Sascha Dikiciyan, Cris Velasco and Christopher Lennertz are tied to it.

From a comment by Jesse James Allen (he was responsible for the "Lower Afterlife" music Lo Fi Epic - The Techno Madness Mix) he might be tied into it as he had a talk with BioWare.

I'm just hoping that the main theme's composition isn't touched and/or we get a new theme because that would thoroughly piss myself and a lot of other people off - I love it, hell I even love the elevator variation of it in the first game.

I don't doubt Clint Mansell's talent, I just hope that he'll try to retain a general feeling that the games have when combined to the composition... for instance, again with the Therum music - but the timing of it was amazing, on each beat the Geth were falling from the Dropship I was being pummeled so I had to put a Barrier up before getting to cover, would have died but Garrus saved my ass by covering me before Tali helped me flank them. Each little bit of those battles went perfectly with the music, to the point that I had to sit down and let the adrenaline pass.

Though, I will admittedly miss the old feeling they tried to hit in the first game sort of based off the cheesy 80s sci-fi music.

Anyway, as I've been typing this up I've been nodding my head along to some of those unreleased tracks from the first game (particularly the Therum ones as I mentioned on the way to find Liara).

I can't wait to see some of the variables in the third game, though I do hope we'll see some more old faces in some friendlier circumstances in it since I was a little disappointed that so few of the old crew would acknowledge each other when you met those that survived.

[Member_of_STARS]

Depends. Really. (Also, Half-Life 1 + expansions and at least the main game of Half-Life 2 has god awful music handling. Mostly just random linear tracks being blasted off from start to end/silence every now and then at the start of various event triggers. Don't remember if Ep1-2 ever did anything about that.)

Yeah, similar music use. You get your ambient tracks playing from start to tracks finish in situations requiring ambience, but there are a couple of battles where the music is on the loop. I recollect two at least, but those were key battles.

I wouldnt say HL music handling is bad. One thing which we both apparently appreciate, is a dynamic soundtrack. However, I have to disagree with your general impression that its the way to go for each game. For example, it would have never fit with HL1, where the main idea was isolation and being alone. Music was used to highlight very key elements, like level transitions. It was mostly silence, and thats why it worked. But when the music hit, there was a reason to it. It was very similar with HL2, however the moments were more forgettable.

I dont think a dynamic soundtrack is the ultimate method of using music in a game, it depends on the game and what kind of emotions need to be raised. Dynamic soundtrack has more to do with tention and its builtup, fast or slow. The games which Ive seen it use (MGS3, SWAT4, Splinter Cell Double Agent- my best examples), have pulled it off very well. Others rely on a very specific track to keep that certain emotion throughout both battles and exploration, also successfully.

Even if Mass Effect 3 goes for a dynOS, my doubts are doubled when a film composer writes the tracks.

The issue here is which needs to be highlighted. DynOS aims at making the character central, not the situation/location. Regular BGMs do the opposite. Mass Effect plot, while Shepard-centric, is still much bigger than the character, and the tracks so far have been very good at showing that the character is insiginificant compared to the danger. In SCDA, for example, the DynOS pretty much factualized your role as the predator and everyone else being a small prey. It was all just a matter of time before you got to the last guy and took care of them.

Personally, I prefer context sensitive music (when done right). But I'm not really happy with how... say... Gears of War and Resident Evil 4-5 handles context sensitive music, but I really like to bring up a couple of recent games as samples of how cinematic music can be done contextually:

How many layers/phases to they have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RExgLKS7rS8

Splinter Cell Double Agent has 3 phases. Background, stress (when youre close to being screwed, close to danger), action.

0:00 is BGM
3:10 is stress, triggered when youre sneaking past an enemy
3:38 is action, when youre discovered

And these three are always seamless

If they're able to pull off this kind of stuff with Clint Mansell onboard -which I hope is what they're aiming for, going by the comments about player actions- I'm all in.

I´ll remember to give you props when it works out well, but Im also going to remind you about this conversation when it turns out less fitting than the first two ME´s.

[Zombie Fred]

Still happy to hear people praising the music from Splinter Cell (Chaos theory and Double Agent), especially when it comes to manipulating the track during the character's situation in the course of the level. A little side note for this: Michael McCann, the composer behind Double Agent, is the same guy who's composed the score and music for Deux Ex: Human Revolution <3

Clint Mansell has created music for a game before (Loaded on the playstation) so give that as a small piece of evidence on him understanding how music plays and transforms in the video-game space. But given his strong track record in the film industry, I have faith that he'll hit the music bang on with his own touch for Mass Effect 3 to fit the themes and situation for the character in this final chapter for Shepard.

@Carn

The Nier music is indeed one of the best things about the game but I clearly don't remember much of the music transforming around you and only going in a loop (Scrapjunk, Northern and South fields, etc), but only when the story changes course in the area. The only time when I have heard the music suddenly changing was with the remix soundtracks in the DLC. I'll never be able to get wretched automatons out of my head however

[aris13]

Though, I will admittedly miss the old feeling they tried to hit in the first game sort of based off the cheesy 80s sci-fi music.

They actually wanted to achieve a "Vangelis" feel to the score but Jack Wall is no Vangelis.

[Enetirnel]

They actually wanted to achieve a "Vangelis" feel to the score but Jack Wall is no Vangelis.

As I'm aware of. Regardless of how much I enjoy the Blade Runner music a lot of the music that has been inspired by the overall composition usually has a somewhat cheesy feeling from the either the time period or simply as the composer can't get a full match on Vangelis' style, I enjoy the music regardless of my comments on cheesy... More-so coming from a person who often replays things like RE1 just to have a chuckle at the voice acting - I'd rather somewhat cheesy, in contrast to a lot of current music nowadays as at least there's a decent sound to it, even if some choices of virtual instruments, samples or synths come across a bit cheesy.

I usually associate cheesy with a fair amount of things from the 80s, only as part of my sense of humor due to my own Father seemingly never leaving the time period as I find it funny despite the factor that a fair amount of music, films and all sorts of other things that I greatly enjoy are from that particular time period. So, I suppose my attempt at some sense of humor has failed YET AGAIN.

However I'm not going to remember to write down absolutely everything as I'm feeling rather exhausted and brain-dead after a long day of work with the flu.

[rehunk88]

i am SOOOOOO hyped about mass effect 3 its gonna be such a great great game !!!! 1 was perfect 2 was perfect and 3 is gonna be perfect

[Enetirnel]

So am I, can't wait til it's released.

Though, I spotted that someone has edited the Mass Effect page on Wikipedia - specifically the character section... I had a little chuckle over it.

The player is assuming direct control of Commander Shepard, a veteran soldier[23] who can be customised by the player. The character's appearance also varies based on the weaponry and armour the player uses.[24] In addition to customising Shepard's gender and appearance, players can also choose a back story for the character, which influences dialogue throughout the game, as well as which side missions will be available to the character.

[Vector]

YouTube video:

Show YouTube video

[rehunk88]

I hope we get a new trailer soon.. i want new info new screens new videos

[Carnivol]

How many layers/phases to they have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RExgLKS7rS8

Splinter Cell Double Agent has 3 phases. Background, stress (when youre close to being screwed, close to danger), action.

0:00 is BGM
3:10 is stress, triggered when youre sneaking past an enemy
3:38 is action, when youre discovered

And these three are always seamless

Gears of War and the latest Resident Evils pretty much just change the audio track entirely during tension (calling it tension is a lie. It's actually just whether or not there are "triggered/aggro" enemies around). Sadly. Nier's music varies. Some sections just speeds things up during tension (Perfect Dark-style), some don't do anything, some build up on map progression, some add additional instruments/vocals under specific circumstances and some of them also mix it all in several layers. Pretty amazing when you start paying attention to it. Red Faction also just has a huge amount of smooth transitions between stuff. Pretty impressive stuff. Not even sure what all the triggers in that game are.

I´ll remember to give you props when it works out well, but Im also going to remind you about this conversation when it turns out less fitting than the first two ME´s.

Unless we have to agree to disagree on the final results, we'll have to come up with a fitting "mark" for the losing side (I'd say custom title, but I love my non-glorified THIA staff tag too much to put it on the line...)

[Member_of_STARS]

Haha! I like that. We can still use signatures and a timeperiod.

[Jill4EverSTARS]

Seeing the trailer and Reaper invasion makes me wonder if my choice of destroying the Collector's base was the right thing I mean there were possibly thousands of Reapers at the end of ME2 and it was hell to just kill Sovereign. Omg I'm excited lol I want to see what my decisions will amount to

[Carnivol]

I think I'm setting myself up for major backdoor screwage of the human race in Mass Effect 3 (and I wouldn't want it any other way)

Currently doing some ME1 replaying (mainly to just fill in some unfinished business), but I guess I should probably set up the major choices to something that mirrors my main file's choices.

[Enetirnel]

I was playing ME1 again too the other day Carn.

I really miss the good old Normandy despite the upgrades we got with the SR2... It just doesn't feel the same.

So, I ended up making myself a little wallpaper of the good old Normandy.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Though, I still need to fix a couple of things up on it... Just been too lazy and too tired to do anything after work.