Laura Controversy

[Mr_Zombie]

(unless you count Origins, which you shouldn't).

Whether you like it or not, Origins is official prequel to SH1, approved by Konami; even if it's scenario look like a not-so-good fanfiction ;/.

Also, the fact, that there are no people in the town (or rather, player doesn't see anyone other than people that are important for the story) doesn't imply it's abandoned. Silent Hill Origins takes place before anything strange started to happen (in the opening scene there's this ritual with Alessa), and Travis still, wandering through the town, doesn't meet anyone else than Lisa, Kauffmann and Dalhia; Lisa doesn't act as if there was something wrong with town (and she would notice monsters running through streets or big holes).

Also, in SH3, mall, sewer, and all the other buildings that the player visit prior the trip to Silent Hill are "infected" (at least for Heather), but in reality, they are normal.

[randomwab]

I don't count Origins because the series has been careful not to trip over itself (take note Capcom -_-) and then Origins turns up, like a lolcat yelling "HAI GUYS WHA'S GOIN' ON IN HEAR!?" destroying shit that Team Silent had carefully planned out. And you might be saying "Well who cares?" but really, Silent Hill is much more of an adventure game than Resident Evil, and one of the few games i'd play for story alone.

Also, in SH3, mall, sewer, and all the other buildings that the player visit prior the trip to Silent Hill are "infected" (at least for Heather), but in reality, they are normal.

Good point, as well as the apartments, subway and hospital in South Ashfield in Silent Hill 4 (save for the victim of that area and Walter).

[BLSR1]

until you guys show me proof from the videogames in video format. Im still not buying it. There is nothing that would make me think that people actually live there.

If silent hill is still populated. Then is it still controlled by the cult? Is White Claudia still around controll the inhabitants minds?

The town doesn't seem to change between games except for monsters and how its warped. But since it changes to people's psyche thats related to the victim.

[randomwab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5wrJTYCsJo

[Rombie]

In the first game Cybil also talks with Harry the fact that the local drug trade has been sold to the tourists coming to Silent Hill and police force can't work who who it is. There are also multiple mentions of this fact through the game, from the police reports to other discussions, including by Lisa, about the fact the town has a tourist center that "the cult" within the town does not like (read = this used to be a quiet town that was all theirs until outsiders all turned up and started to fuck with it by filling it with tourists and tourist crap).

The police reports and the aforementioned comments by Cybil discuss the fact that either all their leads dry up, or people involved in the case seem to mysteriously die. There is also the stuff at the Indian Runner store which seems to show some of the "drug" related stuff, and also how it relates to some of the characters.

Might I add it's also mentioned in the instruction manual what Silent Hill normally is.

A lot of Silent Hill 2 is also based on the idea that the town has seen a variety of history, including it's latest incarnation as a tourist town (IIRC there are some pamphlets you can pick up which discuss this, plus the clear boutique shops, and the way that there is a place like the historical society seems to lend more to this idea).

I assume if I look hard enough I'll also find a video of something from SH1 to back this up.

Edit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarILTSFwVs

Check the last minute. It's there.

Cybil: Darkness devouring the town? Must be on drugs. They sell 'em to the tourists. The force still can't figure out who's behind it. None of our leads have panned out and the investigation is stalled.

Also... It let me say fuck without censoring it? Wow.

[BLSR1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5wrJTYCsJo

Tape could be 50 years old. Your point?




Currently Rombie has the best point out of all of you. But His point depends on whether or not Cybil is real.


I know you're like "Buh?" But think about it. She's not mentioned in SH3. One of the endings has her dying. She turns evil. You see her crash on the road in the beginning. How do we know that shes not a ghost. What if she died in the crash and SH created a "Maria" out of her.




The point is Silent Hill can be interpreted in many different ways. How can you come up with only one interpretation for a game thats completely psychotic? The town fucks with the people in it. Every page read or person encountered could be created to fuck with the protagonist.

[randomwab]

Tape could be 50 years old. Your point?

Are you fucking serious? It's pretty clear your just being a troll now. Your wrong. I showed you proof that you're wrong. You don't believe it. Your wrong.

[BLSR1]

Are you fucking serious? It's pretty clear your just being a troll now. Your wrong. I showed you proof that you're wrong. You don't believe it. Your wrong.

What. Its not proof. Im not being a troll. An ? year old tape saying "come to silent hill" in a apartment THATS BEING HAUNTED BY SILENT HILL is not proof that the town is populated.


those last 3 sentences of yours are trolling. "I have a different opinion so YOU'RE WRONG" is basically what you're saying. and all im saying is that the games can be interpreted in different ways. Rombie provided good proof and you didn't. Thinking in different ways is not a bad thing. Im trying to get you people to not be so narrowminded. AM I A TROLL?

[Gradon]

Jesus, you two.
So Silent Hill is either populated, or not.
Lets leave it at unknown?

[Rombie]

How can you come up with only one interpretation for a game thats completely psychotic? The town fucks with the people in it. Every page read or person encountered could be created to fuck with the protagonist.

I think you're giving it too much depth here... I'm not looking for individuals experiences here, but more running themes through the series. There is enough in each of the series to show that it's not just a "its the way the character is shown it" thing.

I also thought of more afterwards... there is a tourist pamphlet which turns up in SH2 and SH3 explaining some of the modern amnesties. While you're right about Douglas and Heather not saying much about the abandoned state of Silent Hill, it's also interesting to note they also make no discussion about any potential for the resort town to have been abandoned either. Douglas almost sounds like he's been to Silent Hill too often in the past by a couple of the things he said, including the missing persons case (which generally people assume is discussing James from SH2). If someone had made a comment in this regard that the tourists up and left in any of the titles, and none of them seem to, then I might be more inclined to agree.

There are also reports of recent murders in newspaper clippings in Silent Hill 2, one of which shows it's actual historical connection to Silent Hill 4. Aside from the James/Mr Sunderland connection alone showing 4 takes place after 2. One of the "chapters" of SH4 related directly to a newspaper article about one of the murders in Silent Hill at the time of SH2 - which couldn't take place if there wasn't people in the town. Plus if all these people went missing in an empty abandoned town at this stage I think there'd be a bigger investigation mentioned in the game as well.

Also take the fact that the large number of killings from Silent Hill 4 (up until the games antagonist kills himself as one of his required number of deaths) to take place IN Silent Hill, and one of those is very close to the events shown in Silent Hill 2 from what we're also shown. And then there's Schreiber's notes about his investigations into all this you keep finding. If Silent Hill was as abandoned and people less as you're saying, I'd expect that to be noted in part of his research (the fact all the people who lived there went would seem like a fairly important fact to find out). Additionally the NEW radio reports given in some of the endings of Silent Hill 4 (which show references to the characters in the game being found dead in a variety of places) includes areas IN Silent Hill and discuss events related to what had happened to people in Silent Hill some years ago recently.

Additionally, aside from the fact the movie has an abandoned town in it (explained as an underground coal fire), it also works on three levels - a real world, a misty quazi-real world, and a dark world based on the concepts shown in the game as far as the general consensus sees it (and maybe even Akira Y as well seeing as he was their go to guy for things).

I can see reason to not believe there are people around, but... excluding Vincents comments to Heather which the team admitted to put in to potentially shock and confuse people on purpose... I think it's been fairly well established that Silent Hill throughout it's incarnations works not on 2 but 3 dimensional levels... (the real world, the misty world, the dark world) which as far as I'm concerned adds more depth to the story and design.

[BLSR1]

Well put Rombie. I like how you explain things well with good points instead of trolling.
Those are good points. But there are things that point both ways it really is up to the players opinion. Like how the prison in SH2 has been decommissioned for years and years but thats where Walter Sullivan was. No real dates are given right? I think the only thing thats really established date wise is that 3 comes after 1, and 4 comes after 2.

Once again Im just trying to get you all thinking outside the box instead of running off a cliff like lemmings.

[Gradon]

Origins has dates residing back to 1960's, MENTIONED of course, so we can say that Silent Hill has been around along time, and that it probably once WAS a resort town, and now is abandonned, but as Vincent said about the monsters of SH!

[Darkmoon]

Well, I think it's safe to say the Prison and Sullivan's grave therein aren't real. The more likely version is the graveyard in the fourth game. After all...that one isn't somehow several hundred feet underground, yes still at the top of the town. Yes, there is a cliff, but the prison complex is too big and deep for it to actually exist under the historical society and still open up onto the lake.

The radio message could, in theory, be a message from Silent Hill...but since it's actually Walter doing the haunting and he doesn't care at all about Silent Hill I somehow doubt he'd advertise it. It seems much more likely that it's a real radio message. Combined with the radio messages in the endings which mention Silent Hill as a town, not as an abaondoned town (and the media does so love to add things like that in if it's available) seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGkz...eature=related - Eileen's Death ending.

Add in the minor issue that other places, in Silent Hill 3 and 4 are infected with no one but the victims noticing anything is really wrong (the worst people in 4 notice are the missing people) and we see that the power of Silent Hill can, quite easily, take over an area as far as the person being attacked is concerned and leave it untouched for the rest of them.

There is no reason why Silent Hill proper wouldn't be the same. Much more subtle than clearing the whole place out and filling it with abominations. Simply manifest a hell dimension that exists in the same place as the town and trap people in it. If nothing else...a town the size of Silent Hill that's completely deserted? That's gonna be newsworthy. It'll be common knowledge pretty quick.

Add into that the state of the town (there is some power in some places at least, the stores are full and stocked, homes are still furnished, the roads and paths ar in good condition) and, well, demons don't seem to have much in the way of maintience skills.

So...perhaps you could tell us, with some video evidence and clear, logical arguments why the town would be deserted? Remember, not seeing anyone isn't proof, as that happens outside of Silent Hill in areas that are still clearly populated.

[randomwab]

Well put Rombie. I like how you explain things well with good points instead of trolling.

Look, I'm sorry. I understand what you're doing, but I believe something different. If you want to think that Silent Hill is abandoned, that should be up to you. Sorry.

Well, I think it's safe to say the Prison and Sullivan's grave therein aren't real. The more likely version is the graveyard in the fourth game. After all...that one isn't somehow several hundred feet underground, yes still at the top of the town. Yes, there is a cliff, but the prison complex is too big and deep for it to actually exist under the historical society and still open up onto the lake.

I think you're right in saying that they do exist, just not the way we see them. After all, look at the amount of holes and drops people would have to go through to get to the prison.

The radio message could, in theory, be a message from Silent Hill...but since it's actually Walter doing the haunting and he doesn't care at all about Silent Hill I somehow doubt he'd advertise it. It seems much more likely that it's a real radio message. Combined with the radio messages in the endings which mention Silent Hill as a town, not as an abaondoned town (and the media does so love to add things like that in if it's available) seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGkz...eature=related - Eileen's Death ending.

Well, don't forget that the radio message I posted happens before the "hauntings". I suppose you could say that the apartment was haunted through out the game, with the door chained shut, the windows locked, the hole and such, but this one plays toward the start of the game, before the apartment is "infected" by the "hauntings".

Add in the minor issue that other places, in Silent Hill 3 and 4 are infected with no one but the victims noticing anything is really wrong (the worst people in 4 notice are the missing people) and we see that the power of Silent Hill can, quite easily, take over an area as far as the person being attacked is concerned and leave it untouched for the rest of them.

There is no reason why Silent Hill proper wouldn't be the same. Much more subtle than clearing the whole place out and filling it with abominations. Simply manifest a hell dimension that exists in the same place as the town and trap people in it. If nothing else...a town the size of Silent Hill that's completely deserted? That's gonna be newsworthy. It'll be common knowledge pretty quick.

It seems that people mostly see the "events" in Silent Hill through the aftermath. We learn in Silent Hill 4 that James never came back from Silent Hill, and Douglas refairs to a missing persons case. People think it could be James, but it could be Eddie, or Angela or even Laura for all we know. And Silent Hill 2 is just an example of a few people led to the town due to they're dark past. If the town brought them in, I'd assume it brought many more.

Does this also mean that the towns folk may have found Eddies body? Had James come out alive, would that have meant that he was blamed for the death? If they found the bodies of Walter's victims, they must have also found Eddie.

[Rombie]

Well put Rombie. I like how you explain things well with good points instead of trolling.
Those are good points. But there are things that point both ways it really is up to the players opinion. Like how the prison in SH2 has been decommissioned for years and years but thats where Walter Sullivan was. No real dates are given right? I think the only thing thats really established date wise is that 3 comes after 1, and 4 comes after 2.

This is IIRC... as far as I'm aware it never states specifically where the prison is located that he kills himself in, or even that it was in Silent Hill. We know the murders took place there, but like most of the US - you don't normally go to jail in the same place you commited the crimes in.

I need to replay SH4, but its a bit of struggle really... I just don't like the combat and the repetition.