DRM and YOU! What's the problem?

[Carnivol]

Seeing that everyone likes to bitch about DRM things these days, I figured I'd make a topic and just see what people think around these parts.

I see all sorts of fantastic stuff posted about how DRM is bad, and how various forms of it is messing with their installations and how certain applications can't be used with applications using various protections and stuff... Well, now I basically want to direct focus on everyone's little favorite; SecuROM and I want to hear why people think it's the worst thing to've ever happened to mankind and so on.

Also, don't post non-contributing posts or things that basically brings nothing to the table.

[alf717]

The issue I have with DRM is this recent attempts seem to limit the amount of times you can install a game. I'm researching what game does what but it seems these new attempts to protect a title are really going too far. As I said in a few topics about DRM over at Kotaku I'm all for companies protecting there products but limiting the amount of times you can install a game and then having to plea your case to the vendor to get more installs is ridiculous. I used to have the ability to make a purchase and know that my investment was secure and future proof. Now I'm held down by being limited to the amount of installations. The day when I can finally run Crysis at a full 60+ frame only to be gimped by the fact that I can no longer install the game because of too many installs annoys me. Protecting a title is fine but this is taking it way too far.

[Greko]

The issue I have with DRM is this recent attempts seem to limit the amount of times you can install a game. I'm researching what game does what but it seems these new attempts to protect a title are really going too far. As I said in a few topics about DRM over at Kotaku I'm all for companies protecting there products but limiting the amount of times you can install a game and then having to plea your case to the vendor to get more installs is ridiculous. I used to have the ability to make a purchase and know that my investment was secure and future proof. Now I'm held down by being limited to the amount of installations. The day when I can finally run Crysis at a full 60+ frame only to be gimped by the fact that I can no longer install the game because of too many installs annoys me. Protecting a title is fine but this is taking it way too far.

I agree completely there, limiting the number of installs is definately not the way forward for anyone. I don't want to buy something and then find that a few formats later I can't play the game without spending more of my money and wasting time tracking down the company - heck they might even deny me another install on the pretense I pirated it or something :/

I quite like Steam's approach to the DRM front. It's annoying, at least back when HL2 came out, having to be connected to the internet to access the required files for the initial install, especially as it took SOOOOOOO long to download. Heck, it still takes ages now, even on a good connection, but it's definately better than only letting me install the game 3 times and then it becomes useless...

[Helegad]

I hate DRM. Even copy protection on discs were taking it a step too far, because I've had numerous game discs that are worth $50-$100 that have been destroyed by my CD-ROM drive because of over-usage. San Andreas looks like it's about to cork it too, but I can't do anything about that because it has stupid copy protection on the disc. Another thing that pisses me off is that now they're giving out only 3 installs of Spore, so essentially you're paying $100 for a game rental.

I reckon that the best form of copy protection is GAME SIZE. I will NOT download a game that's the size of a DVD. My quota is small enough as it is...

[rewak]

If you're talking about games, then it's a pain in the ass because you've bought the thing, and all it does is limit the amount of times you can install the software you just legally bought. And that is literally all it does, the stuff doesn't prevent piracy at all, it just punishes the people who actually buy it!

If you're talking about digital downloads, it's a pain because again you've bought it but it's limiting you. If it's music you can't play it on certain players (portable and on PC, Winamp for example) and it can be annoying to try and get to burn. And if it's movies then it's a pain in the arse to convert and burn to DVD to watch on your TV.

These problems just make people illegally download the stuff because it gives them the freedom to do what they actually want, whether it be burn the stuff to disc or actually just install the damn game! Thankfully though, most digital vendors seem to be waking up and offering all their digital downloads DRM free. I hope the game industry wakes up too! If you want to stop piracy, stop punishing people for buying your stuff! (Maybe wanna make some decent games too)

[Dot50Cal]

Limiting installs is about the worst thing I've ever seen. Even worse, Spore doesn't allow you to redeem those install's when you un-install it. Granted, they are patching it now, but to even suggest its stopping piracy is ridiculous. Especially when you see that Spore was pirated before it was released anywhere, thus freely available to all pirates. You might say that its to stop "casual piracy" where guy X goes to guy Y's house, and gives him a copy of the game. But afaik, this hasn't worked for ages due to cdkey's and such. If thats the real concern with these companies, then I'd much prefer they just go with a system like Steam, where these games are tied to an account and they cant be run more than once at a time on one PC. This is the way to do DRM, not this install limitation bullshit.

A game is a game, not a friggin operating system. It doesn't warrant this level of security. I wont be purchasing any games that have this level of DRM on them, and I'd hope that other people do the same. Theres too much that can go wrong with this kind of system:

-Do you trust the company enough to not deactivate their servers, and force you to buy the next game in the series?
-Do you trust that if the company goes under, they will release a patch to deactivate this system?
-In Europe? Well then expect a huge bill to call the USA support center to get your install back.

The bottom line is, this is a shitty system, and it needs to be removed from use. Limiting installs doesn't stop piracy, as Spore shows. Pirates had a way around it before the game released. People who want to steal things are always going to. Thats a sad fact of life. Treating your paying customers as criminals is only pushing more people towards consoles. I know, since I've been going that way after being a hardcore PC gamer for years. I got tired of all this DRM nonsense, which sometimes ruined OS installs because of rootkits.

Theres also the issue (back in the day) where you had to un-install any ISO mounting software in order to run a game, because the game figured you were a pirate if you had that installed.

I think coming in here with a post like that Carn is just really condescending. I really don't appreciate the tone you have, implying that anyone who says anything bad about DRM is obviously some nutjob or a pirate themselves. I'm quite shocked to see you standing up for DRM in such a way (or at least decrying the detractors with really un-necessary language). I have to wonder if this isn't influenced by your current position with the BCR team.

[kevstah2004]

I try not run my games from cd or dvd anyway by using No-CD/DVD cracks and run the game directly from HDD or USB it's more convenient than remembering where you last placed the disc it also stops discs from getting scratched from over usage it also has the added benefit of the game running faster because it's not checking for files of the cd-dvd all the time cd-dvd access is miles slower than HDD.

[Helegad]

Yeah, I use No-CD cracks too. They're so helpful, especially when I'm somewhere away from home, and I want to show my friends something in a game. Without the No-CDs, I'd have to bring along the CDs and risk damage.

[The Dude]

Completely disagree with the premise of SecuRom myself, its pretty shameful that im actually having to crack my own games so I don't have to deal with the complications other friends have gone through.
*Including one case were a friend ran out of installs for Mass Effect, rang up customer services only to be told that the circumstances which he explained on the phone/reasons he was forced to reinstall the game multiple times were not good enough to warrant a re-activation!*

I've had to install Bionic Commando Rearmed twice due to a hardware failure and a complete system reformat and hardware update, can't wait till it runs out of installs, its going to be SO much fun trying to negoiate a reactivation once I update my rig next month

I have to wonder if this isn't influenced by your current position with the BCR team.

Took the words right out of my mouth actually, im just glad you said it before I did.
*Could go on about his condescending attitude, often towards posters in BCR's tech support forum or when an opinion seems to conflict with his own but thats not relevant here I guess*.

[Helegad]

If the customer support team told me that a few uninstalls were not a good enough reason to reactivate, I would seriously swear my head off at them and break the handset in my palm, knowing that I gave $50 or $100 to those fuckers for a rental.

Then I would probably try and take SecuROM to court.

[Borman]

I have no problem with the idea of DRM, trying to protect an investment and all. But Dot's right, with pirates getting the game first, without DRM at all, whats the point? If there is going to be DRM on a game, It has to work. If you are trying to prevent piracy, then prevent piracy, thats fine. But if its just an inconvenience to legit buyers, then it's just dumb. You arent winning customers over. Second, let me uninstall the crap that it installs to do the DRM, or uninstall it when I uninstall the game. At the same time, make sure it doesn't touch any other part of my system, because honestly, my virtual cds are more important then your little DRM.

[Helegad]

Borman, that's not the point really. DRM sucks, and what the fuck is it protecting? The stupid methods used by it are just plain shitty compared to what Steam uses.

Why not take a leaf out of their books?