Religion Discussion Topic

[nemesiswontdie]

but if i dont believe in god or the devil and i worship the earth then no that does not mean im worshiping satan cause in my eyes he doesnt exist.

but anyways i dont like religion and i dont believe in god or satan and to me i think that the bible is the worlds best selling fairy tale book.

[Darkmoon]

I don't recall that verse. But then again the Bible is huge.

Exodus 22:18. You should be able to look it up, or do it online if you wish. It's also interesting to note than the Bible defines a witch as someone who deals with dark and evil spirits, so wicca doesn't count.

I disagree here. The New Testament is about 1800 years old. The disciples added the new testament, and then the bible was formed out of the new and old testaments. The old testaments was written before Jesus was born, some of the books were written by Moses and Noah, they were ages before Jesus came to earth. The New Testament is anything written after Christ was born.

Also where is the proof saying that the Bible was edited?

The New Testament is based upon the Jewish Torah. Simply read a copy of both and you'll see some differences. Mostly in the areas of the Messiah. Jesus failed to meet any of the criteria for the Messiah in the Torah, such as rebuilding the Temple, creating world peace and a few other things, but did fall into the section of tests...a person who works miracles and says the words of Moses, the ultimate profit, are no longer applicable. Hence why Christians can eat pork, something included in the 160+ lesser commandments Moses was given. And since God said that Moses' words would never be changed or overridden...

And we know the Torah is unedited because much, much older Torahs (several thousand year old ones) are identical to the versions today. Also, of course, certain older bibles from closer to the beginning of Christianity are somewhat different from the versions today.

Well that is the best guess made with a religious perspective so that's what I'm gonna believe. It's either than or 934782374892364982375932752 years anyway.

And it makes me happier to know that Humans and Dinosaurs lived together rather than millions of years apart.

That's your choice. However, since it isn't the word of God himself but that of men, and new evidence has since come to light (fossil records, various types of dating such as ice core dating and many, many more) I'm going with science for this one.

Well i just said that Pagans worshiped nature. In other words Rocks, Tress, Wood etc...

And they were called devil worshipers because, Satan has dominion over all the earth, and that means nature too. By doing that your bowing to Satan whether you think he exists or not.

Assuming they actually worship that way. See: The Norse.

Beside's which they worship nature, which is a creation of God and therefore divine. How can Satan hold sway over God's creation? Of course, given that Angels are beings without free will, how could an Angel even rebel?

[missvalentine]

but if i dont believe in god or the devil and i worship the earth then no that does not mean im worshiping satan cause in my eyes he doesnt exist.

It's... complicated. Think about it like this, and try don't take offense anyone either.

Think of the devil just like a person who will try and hack your PC and steal your money by trying to make you buy into a scam over the internet.

You believe that what you are signing up for or purchasing is the real deal, and is authentic, and that it is not fake. And that is what the scammer wants you to believe. He will try every trick in the book, he will appeal to your wants and needs, he will coat it with what you want and make it look good. And you will believe him. Then you purchase the product, and you still believe that it is real. But then, a week later, nothing shows up in the mail. Then, you check your bank and you have no money in there. But you remember there was money in there. Where did it go? It was a scam all along, made just to trick you and now the scammer has all your money.

Do you see my point yet? The devil wants your soul and will do anything to steal it. Anyways you asked so I gave you an answer.

[nemesiswontdie]

by your point though makes it sound like your saying that Christians are right and you're all wrong if your not christian.

[Darkmoon]

Yeah. That's the thing with religions. They do all pretty much say that. Me? I'm a lot more open minded, I like to think. The closest to an organized religion I get is Judaism, but...well, I disagree with some of the things there too. The cool thing is the Jewish religion pretty much goes, 'You wanna sin? Then sin. That's between you and God. You'll work it out eventually.'

The Jews have no devil (Satan was an angel sent to test people) and no hell. They essentially have a waiting room where you go over your life and work your stuff out until you're ready to go to heaven, or if someone was epically bad or can't come to terms with themselves they get reincarnated and told to try again.

But even they say, 'This is how it is.'

[missvalentine]

Exodus 22:18. You should be able to look it up, or do it online if you wish. It's also interesting to note than the Bible defines a witch as someone who deals with dark and evil spirits, so wicca doesn't count.

Ok thanks.

The New Testament is based upon the Jewish Torah. Simply read a copy of both and you'll see some differences. Mostly in the areas of the Messiah. Jesus failed to meet any of the criteria for the Messiah in the Torah, such as rebuilding the Temple, creating world peace and a few other things, but did fall into the section of tests...a person who works miracles and says the words of Moses, the ultimate profit, are no longer applicable. Hence why Christians can eat pork, something included in the 160+ lesser commandments Moses was given. And since God said that Moses' words would never be changed or overridden...

And we know the Torah is unedited because much, much older Torahs (several thousand year old ones) are identical to the versions today. Also, of course, certain older bibles from closer to the beginning of Christianity are somewhat different from the versions today.

There are a lot of versions of the bible today though, mainly for things like updating them for the current times (meaning changing the words from Old English to something easier to understand) and stuff mostly, and versions for children. The King James version is the original unedited one though, apart from the English translation that is.

Assuming they actually worship that way. See: The Norse.

Beside's which they worship nature, which is a creation of God and therefore divine. How can Satan hold sway over God's creation? Of course, given that Angels are beings without free will, how could an Angel even rebel?

Where did angels not having a free will come from? I'm pretty sure they have a free will. Yes the earth is Gods creation, and it was perfect then, but man sinned, and now Satan has a sort of lease on the earth. When it's up, that is up, the apocalypse will happen and God will make a new earth. And everyone goes to heaven, or hell.

by your point though makes it sound like your saying that Christians are right and you're all wrong if your not christian.

Yes, i realized that when i typed it. But it was a difficult question to answer.

[Darkmoon]

There are a lot of versions of the bible today though, mainly for things like updating them for the current times (meaning changing the words from Old English to something easier to understand) and stuff mostly, and versions for children. The King James version is the original unedited one though, apart from the English translation that is.

...nope. The King James Bible was 1600's. I believe it was one the first attempts at an English bible. It certainly isn't the oldest, not by a long measure. The Bible was translated from Hebrew to Latin, the New Testament added, then there was some editing done. Hence why Catholic rituals still use latin.

Where did angels not having a free will come from? I'm pretty sure they have a free will. Yes the earth is Gods creation, and it was perfect then, but man sinned, and now Satan has a sort of lease on the earth. When it's up, that is up, the apocalypse will happen and God will make a new earth. And everyone goes to heaven, or hell.

The idea of Angels having no free will is a Jewish tradition, and one that makes more sense than Lucifer. They were created as servants. Hence why mankind having free will is such a huge issue. We're apparently the only creatures with it...which make no sense if Angels have it too.

The second part makes no sense. God is everywhere and perfect, because that's God. How could Satan, a fallen servant he willed to exist (and assuming he did fall , which would mean he did so according to God's own plan as God knows everything) then how could Satan take a part of God's ultimate plan and corrupt it? That would suggest God was imperfect, and therefore doesn't work.

Judgement Day is the result of human actions, and is a Christian concept.

Rather, as with anything non-human, nature is doing exactly as God wills. It could be said, instead, that those pagans that do worship nature simply worship God in a different way and as a different aspect.

[missvalentine]

The idea of Angels having no free will is a Jewish tradition, and one that makes more sense than Lucifer. They were created as servants. Hence why mankind having free will is such a huge issue. We're apparently the only creatures with it...which make no sense if Angels have it too.

The second part makes no sense. God is everywhere and perfect, because that's God. How could Satan, a fallen servant he willed to exist (and assuming he did fall , which would mean he did so according to God's own plan as God knows everything) then how could Satan take a part of God's ultimate plan and corrupt it? That would suggest God was imperfect, and therefore doesn't work.

Well that may be a Jewish thing then with the angels, but not a christian thing. Angels do have a free will i believe. The thing that separates us from other things is that we were made in the image of God, and where given dominion over the land and animals of the earth.

Demons are just evil angels, they have a free will to just like us.

The second one, I can't quite remember why or how Satan has control over the earth at the moment, Ill have to get back to you on that. But I do know that he does though. Ill do some research.

[Dan Corson]

Here's one of my big beefs (I was talking about this with TheMedic earlier): If God has a plan for you, knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen to you, you don't actually have free will. There's no way around it. If God knows and has mapped out everything for us, then nothing is really in our control. There is no free will. I tried for a LONG time (the better part of the last twelve years) to find a different/more pleasing answer, but sadly, there isn't one. It's a major contradiction.

I've talked about this with almost everyone I know who believes, including a few pastors (who I have known most of my life), as well as those who don't believe, and none of them had an answer other than "Huh... I've never thought of that.". The more I looked into it, the more I saw that there really was no other answer. When I used to attend church, I presented this to that pastor; Still no different answer. He was just as puzzled as everyone else.

Then, when I decided to give college a try, I went ahead and took some religion classes. They didn't change anything. The one teacher even got mad at me for 'questioning the word of God and attacking her faith'. I never attacked her or her faith (nor have I anyone else), but because she couldn't find another answer, she felt threatened, I guess.

Anyway, that's it. Sorry if it's a jumbled mess; I'm really tired. I'll shut up now...

[EDIT] Damn, If I didn't take so long to post this, it wouldn't look so redundant next to you guys!

[Member_of_STARS]

Well i just said that Pagans worshiped nature. In other words Rocks, Tress, Wood etc...

And they were called devil worshipers because, Satan has dominion over all the earth, and that means nature too. By doing that your bowing to Satan whether you think he exists or not.

Earth is Gods creation, so how can they worship Satan?

How can they worship Satan if (lets take the time before Crusades for example) if they have absolutely no clue that God or Satan even exist? So no. Your view is skewed and blatantly wrong, not to mention ignorant and arrogant.

[Darkmoon]

Here's one of my big beefs (I was talking about this with TheMedic earlier): If God has a plan for you, knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen to you, you don't actually have free will. There's no way around it. If God knows and has mapped out everything for us, then nothing is really in our control. There is no free will. I tried for a LONG time (the better part of the last twelve years) to find a different/more pleasing answer, but sadly, there isn't one. It's a major contradiction.

I've talked about this with almost everyone I know who believes, including a few pastors (who I have known most of my life), as well as those who don't believe, and none of them had an answer other than "Huh... I've never thought of that.". The more I looked into it, the more I saw that there really was no other answer. When I used to attend church, I presented this to that pastor; Still no different answer. He was just as puzzled as everyone else.

Then, when I decided to give college a try, I went ahead and took some religion classes. They didn't change anything. The one teacher even got mad at me for 'questioning the word of God and attacking her faith'. I never attacked her or her faith (nor have I anyone else), but because she couldn't find another answer, she felt threatened, I guess.

Anyway, that's it. Sorry if it's a jumbled mess; I'm really tired. I'll shut up now...

[EDIT] Damn, If I didn't take so long to post this, it wouldn't look so redundant next to you guys!

Yeah, this one bugs me as well. My wife and I spent all night talking about this one once. God gave us free will, yet if God knows everything then we don't have free will because it's predertermined. But God, by His very nature, must know what will be as well as what is and what was, otherwise He is limited. And God has no limits.

The best answer I ever came up with was the multiverse theory. That every choice is a branch along the path. God, however, can see every path all at once. He knows every possibility. He knows every choice we could make and the paths those choices create.

It's the best I can manage, but I'm no philosopher.

[nemesiswontdie]

missv is comparing 2 religion beliefs together (what it seems like) so it's not gonna make no since

no offence.

[Member_of_STARS]

Yeah, this one bugs me as well. My wife and I spent all night talking about this one once. God gave us free will, yet if God knows everything then we don't have free will because it's predertermined. But God, by His very nature, must know what will be as well as what is and what was, otherwise He is limited. And God has no limits.

The best answer I ever came up with was the multiverse theory. That every choice is a branch along the path. God, however, can see every path all at once. He knows every possibility. He knows every choice we could make and the paths those choices create.

It's the best I can manage, but I'm no philosopher.

Simpliest answer- obvious flaw is obvious.

Gods humanity shows whats he really made of, where he comes from and why is it so hard for a lot of people to think critically and accept a possibility that they may be wrong.

[missvalentine]

Here's one of my big beefs (I was talking about this with TheMedic earlier): If God has a plan for you, knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen to you, you don't actually have free will. There's no way around it. If God knows and has mapped out everything for us, then nothing is really in our control. There is no free will. I tried for a LONG time (the better part of the last twelve years) to find a different/more pleasing answer, but sadly, there isn't one. It's a major contradiction.

I've talked about this with almost everyone I know who believes, including a few pastors (who I have known most of my life), as well as those who don't believe, and none of them had an answer other than "Huh... I've never thought of that.". The more I looked into it, the more I saw that there really was no other answer. When I used to attend church, I presented this to that pastor; Still no different answer. He was just as puzzled as everyone else.

Then, when I decided to give college a try, I went ahead and took some religion classes. They didn't change anything. The one teacher even got mad at me for 'questioning the word of God and attacking her faith'. I never attacked her or her faith (nor have I anyone else), but because she couldn't find another answer, she felt threatened, I guess.

Anyway, that's it. Sorry if it's a jumbled mess; I'm really tired. I'll shut up now...

[EDIT] Damn, If I didn't take so long to post this, it wouldn't look so redundant next to you guys!

Haha, that would probably take a lifetime of intense religion study to figure out. I think Darkmoons theory is a nice one. I really have no idea, some stuff you just have to have faith in and wait till heaven to find out I guess.

Maybe it's to complex for the human brain to understand?

Earth is Gods creation, so how can they worship Satan?

How can they worship Satan if (lets take the time before Crusades for example) if they have absolutely no clue that God or Satan even exist? So no. Your view is skewed and blatantly wrong, not to mention ignorant and arrogant.

Hay, I like you, but don't insult me for my beliefs please.

Yeah, this one bugs me as well. My wife and I spent all night talking about this one once. God gave us free will, yet if God knows everything then we don't have free will because it's predertermined. But God, by His very nature, must know what will be as well as what is and what was, otherwise He is limited. And God has no limits.

The best answer I ever came up with was the multiverse theory. That every choice is a branch along the path. God, however, can see every path all at once. He knows every possibility. He knows every choice we could make and the paths those choices create.

It's the best I can manage, but I'm no philosopher.

Interesting theory.

missv is comparing 2 religion beliefs together (what it seems like) so it's not gonna make no since

no offence.

Well, that's probably cause I don't spend much time studying religion. id much rather study film and video games. I'm just answering questions here from my own limited knowledge. So don't take offense. If you really want to know something you should go to a church and ask a pastor or minister, or hell read the Bible yourself lol.

[Darkmoon]

Eh, I may well be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time, that's for certain. I just try and mesh science and religion as best I can and then go on my happy little way.