Most Overrated Films and Games.

[Member_of_STARS]

I don't think it did. I thought MGS1, MGS2, and especially MGS3 were all far better.

Yet type in MGS on Google and a bunch of MGS4 shit comes up.

The game itself is ok, but it just changed way to much, it needs something to bridge the gap between MGS2 and MGS4. Hopefully Rising will do this, but still I hate the direction it went.

There is a lot I love in MGS4, but even more I hate.

If you Google "Resident Evil" and then click onthe "Images" tab, what do you see? RE4 and RE movies. Make your own conclusions.

I wholeheartedly believe that if MGS4 wasnt as epic as it was, people would have bitched and moaned at the "average MGS game that isnt fit to end the saga"... They had no choice, just look at the Resident Evil community as proof of hypocrisy. Before RE4 and RE5, the most popular theories of the ending of RE were *always* about an epic reunion of STARS members and then a big fight somewhere sometime. Look what happened when people got a logical, although short and simple conclusion to 9 years of plot development. People were enraged.

So the hate for MGS4 is only partially justified, and at the same time its hypocritical.

[jagger916]

The story of MGS4(as with every other MGS) to me is like a big fuck you... in a good way.
Spoiler:

show spoiler

Every plot twist made me feel like complete and utter shit. From killing EVA to killing Big boss and Naomi. I felt sad for every boss I killed.

[missvalentine]

If you Google "Resident Evil" and then click onthe "Images" tab, what do you see? RE4 and RE movies. Make your own conclusions.

I wholeheartedly believe that if MGS4 wasnt as epic as it was, people would have bitched and moaned at the "average MGS game that isnt fit to end the saga"... They had no choice, just look at the Resident Evil community as proof of hypocrisy. Before RE4 and RE5, the most popular theories of the ending of RE were *always* about an epic reunion of STARS members and then a big fight somewhere sometime. Look what happened when people got a logical, although short and simple conclusion to 9 years of plot development. People were enraged.

So the hate for MGS4 is only partially justified, and at the same time its hypocritical.

I don't ever remember saying that I wanted a huge reunion of Stars. Sure I want to see them all again, but not all together in a reunion.

I think MGS4 tried to wrap up every story arc and loose end the series had. Which is not as good an idea as it sounds. Especially since we have Rising coming soon now as well, what was the point of MGS4 being the end?

And I hated what happened to just about every character in the end. It was just stupid.

[Vector]

And I hated what happened to just about every character in the end. It was just stupid.

Examples? I mean, other than Para-Medic, because I know you hate how she became 'bad.'

[missvalentine]

Ok, Ill make a huge list then.

Raiden, I hated what he became, and Seb don't bother giving me and explanation why he became a super ninja, I know why. And it was an incredibly stupid explanation. I hate SuperRaiden so much. Every scene he was in took me right out of the game. He was like a mopey Mary Sue. Like a depressed bad ass. I hated him. And it ruined what MGS2 set up for him. I did like his ending though, but that's all. Every appearances I made, I was screaming out for him to die. Just... Fucking.... DIE ALREADY! The scene where he holds back Outer Heaven almost made me turn my PS3 off and walk away. All sense of realism or credibility in the game was lost at that moment.

Eva, why in Gods name is she still wearing revealing clothing with her breasts hanging out when she is 70! I mean, she's not a slut, in MGS3 she normally wore the stockings and skirt, she only wore the jump suit with the zip down cause her mission was to seduce Big Boss and get the Philosophers Legacy. So then why in MGS4, was she still wearing the same clothes? She had no good reason too. I mean, was she trying to seduce Snake?

Naomi. She was such a whore in MGS4. I mean in MGS1, she was just a lonely little girl who wanted a family, and who wanted revenge for her brothers death. But in MGS4, she gets so many booty cam shots, up skirt cams, and other things that it's like she's just a piece of eye candy and nothing more. I mean her whole story was just her being a slut. First seducing and sleeping with Otacon, then leaving him for Vamp (Cause he's got a longer tongue I guess ). She was just unlikable, for me anyway.

Mei Ling. Now WTF!? It's not even Mei Ling. In MGS1, she was a smart Asian girl, he knew her stuff. Now she's just an American bimbo, that seems dumber than a doorknob. And she gets loads of booty shots. It's as if Kojima suddenly thought that people are all shallow now, who cares for personality. We just want tit's and ass!

Snake. Old Snake was just depressing to watch, he was a bloody chain smoking ball of depression. He smoked a bit in the previous games, but not the the extent that he did in MGS4. I just didn't want to see him as an old man.

Mantis. How in the hell did he come back as a ghost? I was just, WTF when I saw him. Stupid fan service.

Ocelot. Now, I love Ocelot, he's super awesome. But MGS4, did the impossible, it made me hate him. Every scene he was in, I hated him, he was just so, stupid, and annoying. Hell, where the fuck are his revolvers!? His own Nano machines plot was annoying. And his "Oh lol I'm really Liquid, no wait I'm not I was jk" just pissed me off. Everything cool about Ocelot was killed in MGS4. I hated him. Which hurt cause I used to love him. He was my favorite character.

Para-Medic, you already know, the way she was turned evil just made me lose all respect for the game. "OH hai guz, Para was evil lololol bye". It was just random and unnecessary. I hated it.

Zero. His story here was just stupid, it was just a huge deus ex Machina that he was the head of everything. And was all evil. Just randomly out of nowhere. I really hated it.

Sigint. Oh he's actually Donald Anderson. WTF!? That was a really stupid plot twist I think.

I could go on and on. I hated so many things about the game.

[Sinclair]

Your entire reply had a chance to be a perfectly explained opinion, but instead it became nothing but visual proof that you didn't quite grasp the entire concept of the MGS lore. The paramedic thing kind of seals it in bronze with gold decorative frames.

It made me realize that your wishes for the series were so strange and out of place that you expected a fan-service geared towards your odd desires, but instead got something that actually fit and made sense in the canon, and you're disappointed. The natural response would then be that you hate fan-service, while in fact you wanted nothing but fan-service yourself, just in a different direction.

[nemesiswontdie]

lol

you say Raiden in MGS4 is unrealistic bet yet you think jill is realistic lulz
have you yet to realize that MGS in general is unrealistic?

You complain about Eva and Naomi's outfit being to slutty but yet Jills RE3 outfit is perfectly fine? that makes sense (not)

Snake is a smoker get over it.

Para-medic
yeah she was good in 1964 but hey i guess people cant change without your permission

Zero
Yeah he was bad,You didnt know about Zero untill you played MGS3. then he was bad and you hated that. Maybe they show more of a reason why he is bad in PW.

Sigint
Yeah he was the Darpa Cheif,so what?

[missvalentine]

Your entire reply had a chance to be a perfectly explained opinion, but instead it became nothing but visual proof that you didn't quite grasp the entire concept of the MGS lore. The paramedic thing kind of seals it in bronze with gold decorative frames.

It made me realize that your wishes for the series were so strange and out of place that you expected a fan-service geared towards your odd desires, but instead got something that actually fit and made sense in the canon, and you're disappointed. The natural response would then be that you hate fan-service, while in fact you wanted nothing but fan-service yourself, just in a different direction.

What?

So because I don't want stupid things to happen like Ocelot pretending he is Liquid, it means I want some sort of odd fan service? Also Ocelot makes no sense, when he is Liquid in MGS2, he at least made a Liquid voice, but now in MGS4, there is no Liquid voice. It makes no sense, how was he gonna fool the patriots with that? Does he think there stupid?

What on earth are you on about Sinclair?

And what about Para Medic means I want odd fan service? I think, she should of not even been in MGS4. Why does she need to be in it? Just keep her in MGS3 and PO. None of the MGS3 characters should of been in MGS4.

Dr, Clark was already explained, all MGS4 did was go, "oh lol, Para is Dr Clark". And randomly inserted her in the storyline for no purpose other than to have her in the game.

It was BS.

you say Raiden in MGS4 is unrealistic bet yet you think jill is realistic lulz
have you yet to realize that MGS in general is unrealistic?

Oh Yeah I forgot that time Jill lifted three tanks up and threw them at Nemmy with her bare hands.

MGS, is what you would call, realistic fantasy. It's fantasy, but done with realism. MGS4 just pushed the boundary's of that way to far.

I mean how can you be pissed that Snake was riding missiles in Twin Snakes, but not care that Raiden was spinning Geckos around with his feet in MGS4?

You complain about Eva and Naomi's outfit being to slutty but yet Jills RE3 outfit is perfectly fine? that makes sense (not)

Firstly Jill is not a 70 year old women. She's 24, it's what you do. And secondly. I don't remember any camera angles that went up her skirt in RE3. Whereas MGS4 did have them.

Also Ive stated many times I think her Remake outfit is far better. I mean, look at that long gown she is wearing in my avatar, I like that better too.

Eva and Naomi were made really slutty though. Jill didn't go and sleep with everything in sight.

Snake is a smoker get over it.

Smoking is bad for you and drains you health. By that message in MGS1. Why did Snake not die form lung cancer in the first 5 minutes of MGS4?!

He was a fucking chimney, and it interrupted the story. Something happens, oh wait, Snake's coughing again, fucking smokers. And remember the cutscene on the battleship?

Mei Ling - "Alright, does anyone have any questions about the mission?"

Snake - *hand goes up*

Mei Ling - "Yes Snake"

Snake - "Got any cigarettes *Cough Cough Cough*"

Everyone - "Ugh..."

It was just stupid and annoying, his constant smoking got on my nerves. I mean he even gave cigarettes to Drebins monkey. I was like get on with the story! This is not Metal Gear Smoke!

Para-medic
yeah she was good in 1964 but hey i guess people cant change without your permission

People can change. But not that much, and not without any explanation at all.

The only reason she was bad in MGS4, was for sheer shock factor at learning a new plot twist. And that's all there is to it. And it pissed me off. it was unplanned and had no set up.

There was nothing in MGS3, or in PO, to suggest she would do anything of the type. So she's a good little girl who wants to save and help people in the 60's and 70's. Then nothing at all from her, then in the 2000's, Oh did I mention, she's suddenly evil. People don't just suddenly decide to be evil.

Makes no sense at all.

And that is why I consider that bullshit non canon until we get a proper explanation for it.

The only good characters in MGS4, were the original ones, like Sunny and Drebin. But even then, Beauty and the beast sucked and was just a rehash of Renegade Fox hound.

Sigint
Yeah he was the Darpa Cheif,so what?

And now your contradicting yourself.

Sigint did not change at all in the slightest, not even in looks.



Look at him here in MGS4. He is 24 years old in 1964.



Now look at him in MGS TTS. He looks no older than 30. But he should be 65 cause MGS1 is in 2005.

They barely even look like each other anyway.

[Mr_Zombie]

Look what happened when people got a logical, although short and simple conclusion to 9 years of plot development. People were enraged.

And here's a problem.

I'm not gonna bash MGS4 because I enjoyed watching it (haven't played the game because I don't own PS3 and I don't really find MGS gameplay amusing - it was all about the story for me; therefore I only watched a several hour long montage of cut-scenes and important gameplay parts). However you can't say that everything in MGS4 was logical (or even short or simple). For the most parts it looks as if Kojima just take every single character that was still alive in the series and throw it in MGS4, sometimes for almost no reason. Sometimes it felt like a really bad fanfic (and no, I've never been a fan of those "let's all STARS members join together and attack Umbrella HQ!" storylines); not to mention, the game retconned almost everything from the previous games (especially MGS2).

(huge MGS4 spoilers ahead -- I know that this thread is full of them but I think it would be nice to warn people first ;)).

Johnny. Poor little Johnny that served as a comic relief in MGS1, MGS2, (MGS3 - I know it wasn't him, just hist father or grandfather) and act 1 and the beginning of act 3 of MGS4. He was just a dumb soldier that had constant diarrhoea; seeing how he acted in act 1 of MGS4 I really wonder how he even survived Shadow Moses... Ok, a comic relief character again. But no, wait, here comes the end of act 3, where he reveals his face and omg - it's Prince Charming. And suddenly he's a serious character, know how to fight (the fight with the frogs in act 5) and propose to Meryl because he always loved her since she knocked him down on Shadow Moses... uhm... yeah...

Raiden. I'm one of those who really liked him in MGS2, he was different from Snake in almost every possible way and that what made him special. But no, there were people that went "lol Raiden is sooo gay" and what Kojima did? He made Raidenovich in MGS3 - who was your stereotypical gay character, a coward and a total jackass all at once; oh, and he had Raiden's poster in his cabinet ("lol Raiden is sooo gay"); not to mention Snake Eraser from MGS3: Subsistance. Then there was that teaser for MGS4 (the one made on MGS3 engine) where there were sparkles all over Raiden and he was beaten by a Snake. And it was strange because in lots of interviews Kojima was saying that he was sad that Raiden was so bad received by gamers and that he wants people to like him (and that's why you made fun of him in MGS3, right?).
But here comes MGS4 and... Raiden is turned into a Gray Fox wannabe, and people actually started to like him ("Raiden is sooo badass! :O I want to play as him!"). But it wasn't the Raiden, the one from MGS2, it was just another cyborg ninja. Not to mention, in MGS2 we left Raiden after he destroyed the shadow of his past, when he actually started to live a new life, when he "found something to pass along to the future.", and wanted to "teach that to our children". We left him and Rose together with the happy ending. But then comes MGS4 - Raiden still can't deal with his past, leaves (pregnant) Rose (you can't tell me you didn't know she might be pregnant; at that age you should know where does babies come from), turns himself into a cyborg and goes fighting again. Character's development? Not really, it's rather throw everything he achieved in the previous game out of the window and make him into a bad ass ninja. :/
It's especially hilarious that at the end of MGS4 Raiden is "oh, we will be a happy family from now on"... you did this at the end of MGS2 too and you failed, you know?

And no, making Rose married Campbell (an old man she didn't know) and saying that it's his child she born wasn't logical either.

Vamp. Was it ever answered why Vamp is there? Why was he ever working with Ocelot - the scum who killed both of his lovers and was partially responsible for the destruction of his team? Not to mention, from what I remember Dead Cell never wanted to deal with The Patriots - it was always Solidus' goal. All Dead Cell wanted was revenge on people for accusing them of being "killers responsible for the mass-murder of civilians as well as our own allies", nothing more.
I also didn't like that they retconned all Vamp's powers from MGS2. Running on water and walls? He had special boots (even though he didn't in MGS2). Can survive being shot twice in the forehead and drown? Yeah, he has fast healing abilities, but nanomachines also helped. Why was it ever necessary to explain that? Was it ever explained how Mantis could levitate and read people's mind? Was it ever explained how Octopus could drink other's blood and change into them? How Fortune actually managed to stop rockets without her device? How The Fear had almost no bones, The Pain could control bees etc? No. So why do you need to explain Vamp's abilities even though the explanation have no sense.

Big Boss. Let's just say that bringing him back from dead only to make out with Snake, describe what really happened (yeah, who needs a several hours long cut-scenes when you really needs just one huge monologue at the end of the game) and then dies... for real this time (at least I hope so).

There are more problems with characters and the story (some were described by missvalentine already); it isn't anything game or story breaking and as I've said I enjoyed watching MGS4, but I can see why some people might think that MGS4 doesn't deserve the hype it gets.

[nemesiswontdie]

what ever mr.v there is no point in arguing with you.

[Sinclair]

What?

So because I don't want stupid things to happen like Ocelot pretending he is Liquid, it means I want some sort of odd fan service? Also Ocelot makes no sense, when he is Liquid in MGS2, he at least made a Liquid voice, but now in MGS4, there is no Liquid voice. It makes no sense, how was he gonna fool the patriots with that? Does he think there stupid?

What on earth are you on about Sinclair?

And what about Para Medic means I want odd fan service? I think, she should of not even been in MGS4. Why does she need to be in it? Just keep her in MGS3 and PO. None of the MGS3 characters should of been in MGS4.

Dr, Clark was already explained, all MGS4 did was go, "oh lol, Para is Dr Clark". And randomly inserted her in the storyline for no purpose other than to have her in the game.

It was BS.

See, there's your problem. You have such a fanboy-devoted view on your fictional reality that anything failing to mirror it completely fails in your eyes. It's pretty obvious that you have the qualities of a fanboy, especially toward female videogame characters.

It's almost like you're in love with them, and suddenly disgusted by a plot change (which is otherwise perfectly plausible) that would inevitable force you to change your views on them, yet you refuse because love makes blind. Instead, you take up arms and try to belittle and disarm the storyline/plot/writers until every factor you dislike disappears in your head, so you can comfortably go back to being a drooling fanboy without reservations. It's like that with Jill from RE, Paramedic from MGS, and what not. You're metaphorically letting a videogame persona walk all over you because you turn a blind eye to what you dislike, and gaze with the utmost concentration at what you do like. Women in California would love you.

If you think a person couldn't have changed over the course of 50 years, then it's obvious that your age and experience in life are hindering your judgment. Take it from someone that's seen it happen many, many times. That is not an insult in the slightest. That is genuine advice. Being naive in today's society will cause nothing but pain.

[Bertha]

There's a lot of things being thrown out there that I agree with, and others not so much. And sorry MissV...but I think Mr. Zombie put some of the illogical matters up for discussion a bit better than you did. Despite that, there are some things I can somewhat agree with.

For one, on the subject of Para-medic....it has been 50 years, like Sinclair said. People do change, and one of the themes found in MGS is that evil and good are just terms used to justify a certain side. Many people considered "evil" or "bad guys" didn't see it that way. They thought what they were doing was for the best. Saying a character was evil, like Para, is rather overshooting it. We don't know everything about her motives. We know she was involved, but as in depth as the MGS games get, she wasn't too flushed out.

Naomi and Eva. I don't think they were sluts. Yes, Eva's outfit was a bit...meh...but please...oversexualization of female characters has been something included in all games. If you missed the sexual undertones from the previous games, then you clearly have missed a lot. Most of it was used simply for Easter eggs and to add a bit of comedy. And come on...I know its silly, but if I still looked that good at 70, I'd want to show it off from time to time. Calling Naomi a slut, and then turning around and calling her lonely...that often goes hand in hand in why people do some things. People often think that sex makes them feel wanted. Some lonely women use sex to their advantage, and often times for survival. Just saying "OMG SEH IS SUCH A WHORE GUIZ" is clearly a lack of understanding, about the characters, sex, and life in general.

Snake smoking. How is this bad aside from the whole smoking in general is bad for you? Not everyone that smokes gets lung cancer. I know chain smokers that are much worse than Snake, and they aren't in nearly as good of shape as he is, and yet they are fine. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. As MissV already mentioned...cigs were used in the first game to show that smoking was bad. Don't you think that the reccurring theme was used for a point?

Sigint = Darpa Chief. In all fairness about looks, practically everyone's face in MGS1 looked like shit on logs. Though there is a level of stretchiness to it, is it really so hard to think that a man working for the government in his early years as a tech expert wouldn't have a job involved with developing technology later in life?


MGS is a pretty good series, overall, and Kojima obviously isn't finished with it yet. And he does try to bring back characters and give them some purpose. Yes, sometimes its a bit silly, but on the whole people generally accept it.

[missvalentine]

Vamp. Was it ever answered why Vamp is there? Why was he ever working with Ocelot - the scum who killed both of his lovers and was partially responsible for the destruction of his team? Not to mention, from what I remember Dead Cell never wanted to deal with The Patriots - it was always Solidus' goal. All Dead Cell wanted was revenge on people for accusing them of being "killers responsible for the mass-murder of civilians as well as our own allies", nothing more.
I also didn't like that they retconned all Vamp's powers from MGS2. Running on water and walls? He had special boots (even though he didn't in MGS2). Can survive being shot twice in the forehead and drown? Yeah, he has fast healing abilities, but nanomachines also helped. Why was it ever necessary to explain that? Was it ever explained how Mantis could levitate and read people's mind? Was it ever explained how Octopus could drink other's blood and change into them? How Fortune actually managed to stop rockets without her device? How The Fear had almost no bones, The Pain could control bees etc? No. So why do you need to explain Vamp's abilities even though the explanation have no sense.

I agree with everything you said. But I forgot Vamp. There was no need at all to explain why he was like he was. Now his character is completely demystified. It sucks. I was happier not knowing that Vamp was just on nanomachines. I was happy just thinking he was, well a Vampire.

This is also partly why I hope Ada never fully gets uncovered.

See, there's your problem. You have such a fanboy-devoted view on your fictional reality that anything failing to mirror it completely fails in your eyes. It's pretty obvious that you have the qualities of a fanboy, especially toward female videogame characters.

It's almost like you're in love with them, and suddenly disgusted by a plot change (which is otherwise perfectly plausible) that would inevitable force you to change your views on them, yet you refuse because love makes blind. Instead, you take up arms and try to belittle and disarm the storyline/plot/writers until every factor you dislike disappears in your head, so you can comfortably go back to being a drooling fanboy without reservations. It's like that with Jill from RE, Paramedic from MGS, and what not. You're metaphorically letting a videogame persona walk all over you because you turn a blind eye to what you dislike, and gaze with the utmost concentration at what you do like. Women in California would love you.

If you think a person couldn't have changed over the course of 50 years, then it's obvious that your age and experience in life are hindering your judgment. Take it from someone that's seen it happen many, many times. That is not an insult in the slightest. That is genuine advice. Being naive in today's society will cause nothing but pain.

I don't even know what to say. Or why your here arguing this. Other than Seb can't fight his own fights and asks you to come fight for him. Like the last time you came here.

I highly doubt you were just browsing, cause your not even an RE fan, why browse the site? Just so you can say negative things to random people you disagree with on the odd chance they talk about something you like?

Have you actually played MGS4? Do you not know how big of a plot hole there is with the Para-Medic character in there? A plot hole that makes no sense at all?

Can you imagine, if at the end of RE5. Chris and Wesker confront each other. We all fully expect them to start an epic series ending fight. They scream and run at each other, then.... kiss and passionately make out.

Everyone is like.... WTF is going on!?

Capcom goes, lololol people change.

Everyone, but this is just stupid, it's like you only did this for shock factor alone. There was absolutely nothing to suggest this in previous games, or even in this one. It's completely random, unnecessary and out of the blue.

Capcom, .......... people change..... You give me moneys now?

For one, on the subject of Para-medic....it has been 50 years, like Sinclair said. People do change, and one of the themes found in MGS is that evil and good are just terms used to justify a certain side. Many people considered "evil" or "bad guys" didn't see it that way. They thought what they were doing was for the best. Saying a character was evil, like Para, is rather overshooting it. We don't know everything about her motives. We know she was involved, but as in depth as the MGS games get, she wasn't too flushed out.

No no no, you misunderstand. It's not the fact she is evil that pisses me off. It's the fact that she was made to be evil without a proper explanation, she she was reconnected into being doctor Clark and killed none other than for a dramatic effect.

If Kojima had thought it through, and done it properly, I would of had no problem.

It's just that, the whole series we have been told the patriots are evil. We must hunt them down and kill them. They are nameless faceless people. Then by MGS4, Kojima obviously still hasn't come up with the patriots, then he gets the brilliant idea, to just make all MGS3 characters patriots, everyone loves Big Boss right? So he goes about setting up a back story, he see's a chance to make yet another MGS1 reference, and makes Sigint the Darpa Cheif, and retcons Para to being Dr Clark.

So yeah, after all this, all this hunting down of the patriots, the end is finally revealed. They are just the MGS3 characters. And at that point I get the evil is just a point of view thing The Boss said in MGS3. I was like..... fuck you Snake, go choke on a cigarette. You made me play this whole game thinking I was hunting evil, I actually like these people more than you or the cast of this game. I think, the patriots are good, I think that Snake and his team are more evil. I would rather the patriots have won. I liked the patriots. In fact the Idea of Para being this all powerful Patriot women was very cool in my mind. I liked it a lot. I liked Zero, I liked Sigint, I liked Para, I liked them all more than the second generation of MGS characters, the characters around Big Boss's time were much more fun, and I liked them more.

So yeah, I don't think Para was actually evil. But people go, Oh she's evil, she was a patriot! I think that's a load of BS. Maybe if she had some sort of fleshing out and a story as to why she turned evil, and how it happened. Then I would of accepted it. But no, Kojima was lazy. So I think, going form what The Boss said in MGS3. That evil is just a point of view. In Snakes eyes, yes they were evil. But not in mine, and not in her own eyes either. People don't just become evil, certainly not her, from what she was like in MGS3. I mean hell she invented Paramedics, all she wanted to do was help people.

This could of made a really interesting story. But oh no, then Kojima goes and kills her strait away, making her Dr Clark. That is what most pisses me off. Why did she also randomly have to die? It's stupid. I hate that, she should never have been Dr Clark. And I don't accept that BS thing that Naomi thought Clark was a guy. Dr Clark was a guy, it's stated in MGS1. Para-Medic, is NOT Dr Clark. There was no good explanation behind it, and it was a random shock plot twist thing.

You know what could of been done, and that would have gone along with the themes of MGS? If Para had still been alive. (She could of looked sexy too, if Eva can, and if Sigint didn't even age a day, Para could look sexy at 60 ) Para and Snake could of had a confrontation of some sorts. Snake tries to murder here under his false idea's of her being evil. She fights back, she believes in her own mind that she is doing the world good. And Snake truly believes her to be evil. The conversations would have been great. She could of mentioned Big Boss, and been all like. "I knew your father Snake" and messed with him, since he tried to kill her. It could of been done properly, instead of the stupid little explanation we got in MGS4. Then of course, what would Snake think knowing she knew Big Boss, he thinks Big Boss is evil, but if he talked to her, and found out about him, what would he think then, and IIRC, in mGS4 supposedly Big Boss left them all, so she could of said they were no longer friends cause he left in the 80/90's. Snake could think back, it was the 90's that Big Boss turned bad and started Outer Heaven. So what would he do then, Maybe he would consider that he was on the wrong side, maybe it was just a conflict of views. Maybe she did really think she was helping the world. He probably would not have killed her. Maybe she would have joined his team and, (something that Kojima loves) like father like son, both had Para on there support team. Snake would of had to decide which side was right and which was wrong.

If I or someone had a few months more to think about this I'm sure they could get this story all cleaned up and presentable. But even it the 10 minutes I spent typing this, I came up with something that would fit the MGS universe better than what happened in MGS4 I think In my opinion. I think that MGS4 was just a colossal stuff up and a huge waste of potential.

Naomi and Eva. I don't think they were sluts. Yes, Eva's outfit was a bit...meh...but please...oversexualization of female characters has been something included in all games. If you missed the sexual undertones from the previous games, then you clearly have missed a lot. Most of it was used simply for Easter eggs and to add a bit of comedy. And come on...I know its silly, but if I still looked that good at 70, I'd want to show it off from time to time. Calling Naomi a slut, and then turning around and calling her lonely...that often goes hand in hand in why people do some things. People often think that sex makes them feel wanted. Some lonely women use sex to their advantage, and often times for survival. Just saying "OMG SEH IS SUCH A WHORE GUIZ" is clearly a lack of understanding, about the characters, sex, and life in general.

I know, but it's like instead of relying on character depth or anything, Kojima relied solely on sex. He just made Naomi hot and had plenty of booty shots and that's all she was. Eva in MGS3 was a mixture of both, she still had a great character and had depth to her.

I never liked Naomi, not in MGS1, nor in MGS4. But the amount of people that like Naomi, just because she's hot in MGS4 pisses me off. She has no character at all except for a slutty attitude. She had Otacon to go to, then she leaves him for Vamp. That's just whoreish, not loneliness.

Snake smoking. How is this bad aside from the whole smoking in general is bad for you? Not everyone that smokes gets lung cancer. I know chain smokers that are much worse than Snake, and they aren't in nearly as good of shape as he is, and yet they are fine. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. As MissV already mentioned...cigs were used in the first game to show that smoking was bad. Don't you think that the reccurring theme was used for a point?

Sigint = Darpa Chief. In all fairness about looks, practically everyone's face in MGS1 looked like shit on logs. Though there is a level of stretchiness to it, is it really so hard to think that a man working for the government in his early years as a tech expert wouldn't have a job involved with developing technology later in life?

But Snake should of been Dead after the first five minutes of MGS4 by the amount of smoking he did in that game. If you had the cigarette in Snakes mouth for to long, in any MGS game, he'd die from lung cancer in about a minute or two. So how it is possible for him to smoke that much in MGS4? And still be able to run around and kill people like he did. It was pushing the boundary's of realism again.

And in Twin Snakes you could see Andersons face. Sigint looked nothing like him apart from that were both black.

[jagger916]

Para-medic and gene therapy were hinted at in MGS3. And the whole smoking thing makes the gameplay unrealistic, not the story. And can no one ever talk of Twin Snakes again, please.

[Inferno04]

You're metaphorically letting a videogame persona walk all over you because you turn a blind eye to what you dislike, and gaze with the utmost concentration at what you do like. Women in California would love you.

Hey. HEY. Knock that off.

Okay MGS aside I'm throwing my two cents into this topic. Something I think is really overrated...hm...R.E.N.T.

I don't see the appeal. :/ I didn't like it. I saw people doing stupid things and dwelling on the past, then not learning from the past and being stupid again. "Oh lolz I ALWAYS loved you from the start druggy woman, all that BS about me being hurt from my ex that died? LOLZ not important."

Ironically the only character I gave a damn about, and that lived to the fullest, ended up dying. Was that the point of the musical? To try to live life even if you're dying, and to not act like morons? Not to mention, I didn't even like the music so...Preferences I guess.