Most Overrated Films and Games.

[missvalentine]

Para-medic and gene therapy were hinted at in MGS3. And the whole smoking thing makes the gameplay unrealistic, not the story. And can no one ever talk of Twin Snakes again, please.

Yeah, there was one small sentence were the she mention's Gene Therapy. And I think that was because as we all know, Para was the doctor that did the Les Enfant Terribles project.

Also going by how she talked about it in that brief conversation. You can tell she thought she was doing it for good and not for evil.

[nemesiswontdie]

I agree with everything you said. But I forgot Vamp. There was no need at all to explain why he was like he was. Now his character is completely demystified. It sucks. I was happier not knowing that Vamp was just on nanomachines. I was happy just thinking he was, well a Vampire.

This is also partly why I hope Ada never fully gets uncovered.



I don't even know what to say. Or why your here arguing this. Other than Seb can't fight his own fights and asks you to come fight for him. Like the last time you came here.

I highly doubt you were just browsing, cause your not even an RE fan, why browse the site? Just so you can say negative things to random people you disagree with on the odd chance they talk about something you like?

Have you actually played MGS4? Do you not know how big of a plot hole there is with the Para-Medic character in there? A plot hole that makes no sense at all?

Can you imagine, if at the end of RE5. Chris and Wesker confront each other. We all fully expect them to start an epic series ending fight. They scream and run at each other, then.... kiss and passionately make out.

Everyone is like.... WTF is going on!?

Capcom goes, lololol people change.

Everyone, but this is just stupid, it's like you only did this for shock factor alone. There was absolutely nothing to suggest this in previous games, or even in this one. It's completely random, unnecessary and out of the blue.

Capcom, .......... people change..... You give me moneys now?




No no no, you misunderstand. It's not the fact she is evil that pisses me off. It's the fact that she was made to be evil without a proper explanation, she she was reconnected into being doctor Clark and killed none other than for a dramatic effect.

If Kojima had thought it through, and done it properly, I would of had no problem.

It's just that, the whole series we have been told the patriots are evil. We must hunt them down and kill them. They are nameless faceless people. Then by MGS4, Kojima obviously still hasn't come up with the patriots, then he gets the brilliant idea, to just make all MGS3 characters patriots, everyone loves Big Boss right? So he goes about setting up a back story, he see's a chance to make yet another MGS1 reference, and makes Sigint the Darpa Cheif, and retcons Para to being Dr Clark.

So yeah, after all this, all this hunting down of the patriots, the end is finally revealed. They are just the MGS3 characters. And at that point I get the evil is just a point of view thing The Boss said in MGS3. I was like..... fuck you Snake, go choke on a cigarette. You made me play this whole game thinking I was hunting evil, I actually like these people more than you or the cast of this game. I think, the patriots are good, I think that Snake and his team are more evil. I would rather the patriots have won. I liked the patriots. In fact the Idea of Para being this all powerful Patriot women was very cool in my mind. I liked it a lot. I liked Zero, I liked Sigint, I liked Para, I liked them all more than the second generation of MGS characters, the characters around Big Boss's time were much more fun, and I liked them more.

So yeah, I don't think Para was actually evil. But people go, Oh she's evil, she was a patriot! I think that's a load of BS. Maybe if she had some sort of fleshing out and a story as to why she turned evil, and how it happened. Then I would of accepted it. But no, Kojima was lazy. So I think, going form what The Boss said in MGS3. That evil is just a point of view. In Snakes eyes, yes they were evil. But not in mine, and not in her own eyes either. People don't just become evil, certainly not her, from what she was like in MGS3. I mean hell she invented Paramedics, all she wanted to do was help people.

This could of made a really interesting story. But oh no, then Kojima goes and kills her strait away, making her Dr Clark. That is what most pisses me off. Why did she also randomly have to die? It's stupid. I hate that, she should never have been Dr Clark. And I don't accept that BS thing that Naomi thought Clark was a guy. Dr Clark was a guy, it's stated in MGS1. Para-Medic, is NOT Dr Clark. There was no good explanation behind it, and it was a random shock plot twist thing.

You know what could of been done, and that would have gone along with the themes of MGS? If Para had still been alive. (She could of looked sexy too, if Eva can, and if Sigint didn't even age a day, Para could look sexy at 60 ) Para and Snake could of had a confrontation of some sorts. Snake tries to murder here under his false idea's of her being evil. She fights back, she believes in her own mind that she is doing the world good. And Snake truly believes her to be evil. The conversations would have been great. She could of mentioned Big Boss, and been all like. "I knew your father Snake" and messed with him, since he tried to kill her. It could of been done properly, instead of the stupid little explanation we got in MGS4. Then of course, what would Snake think knowing she knew Big Boss, he thinks Big Boss is evil, but if he talked to her, and found out about him, what would he think then, and IIRC, in mGS4 supposedly Big Boss left them all, so she could of said they were no longer friends cause he left in the 80/90's. Snake could think back, it was the 90's that Big Boss turned bad and started Outer Heaven. So what would he do then, Maybe he would consider that he was on the wrong side, maybe it was just a conflict of views. Maybe she did really think she was helping the world. He probably would not have killed her. Maybe she would have joined his team and, (something that Kojima loves) like father like son, both had Para on there support team. Snake would of had to decide which side was right and which was wrong.

If I or someone had a few months more to think about this I'm sure they could get this story all cleaned up and presentable. But even it the 10 minutes I spent typing this, I came up with something that would fit the MGS universe better than what happened in MGS4 I think In my opinion. I think that MGS4 was just a colossal stuff up and a huge waste of potential.




I know, but it's like instead of relying on character depth or anything, Kojima relied solely on sex. He just made Naomi hot and had plenty of booty shots and that's all she was. Eva in MGS3 was a mixture of both, she still had a great character and had depth to her.

I never liked Naomi, not in MGS1, nor in MGS4. But the amount of people that like Naomi, just because she's hot in MGS4 pisses me off. She has no character at all except for a slutty attitude. She had Otacon to go to, then she leaves him for Vamp. That's just whoreish, not loneliness.




But Snake should of been Dead after the first five minutes of MGS4 by the amount of smoking he did in that game. If you had the cigarette in Snakes mouth for to long, in any MGS game, he'd die from lung cancer in about a minute or two. So how it is possible for him to smoke that much in MGS4? And still be able to run around and kill people like he did. It was pushing the boundary's of realism again.

And in Twin Snakes you could see Andersons face. Sigint looked nothing like him apart from that were both black.

ok 1.I can fight my own arguments im just not gonna both replying to you cause you dont listen. Our MSN chat for example
2.You cant stop someone from getting on a site
3.who are you to judge someone if they are a fan of a series or not? Then again what do I know im just a "movie buff who likes games"

[missvalentine]

You know what could of been done, and that would have gone along with the themes of MGS? If Para had still been alive. (She could of looked sexy too, if Eva can, and if Sigint didn't even age a day, Para could look sexy at 60 ) Para and Snake could of had a confrontation of some sorts. Snake tries to murder here under his false idea's of her being evil. She fights back, she believes in her own mind that she is doing the world good. And Snake truly believes her to be evil. The conversations would have been great. She could of mentioned Big Boss, and been all like. "I knew your father Snake" and messed with him, since he tried to kill her. It could of been done properly, instead of the stupid little explanation we got in MGS4. Then of course, what would Snake think knowing she knew Big Boss, he thinks Big Boss is evil, but if he talked to her, and found out about him, what would he think then, and IIRC, in mGS4 supposedly Big Boss left them all, so she could of said they were no longer friends cause he left in the 80/90's. Snake could think back, it was the 90's that Big Boss turned bad and started Outer Heaven. So what would he do then, Maybe he would consider that he was on the wrong side, maybe it was just a conflict of views. Maybe she did really think she was helping the world. He probably would not have killed her. Maybe she would have joined his team and, (something that Kojima loves) like father like son, both had Para on there support team. Snake would of had to decide which side was right and which was wrong.

Id like to add some more to this.

I think that a confrontation scene between Para and Snake would be extremely interesting. Because Para made Snake, She was the head doctor in charge of Les Enfants Terribles.

So if Snake wanted to kill her, he would also be technically killing is own creator, or mother in a sense, even though Eva is his, biological mother, kinda.

And I mean, was Para really evil, even from Snakes point of view? She did create Snake, look at all the greatness that caused. So what evil did she really do there? Snake would be at a crossroads decision. I really think that Para was only referred to as Evil, because that is what Eva thought of her. I think she was good. Fuck Grey Fox for killing her. Para is way more important the the over all story than Grey Fox will ever be. Without Para, there is no Snake at all. End of story. Eva would have died in Russia, Big Boss never would have completed his mission. Snake, Liquid, and Solidus would be none existent. Raiden would never have been a child soldier. If there was no Grey Fox, nothing as dramatic as that would of happened. Para is probably one of the most important characters in the entire series. And Kojima kills her off like she's nothing. She's so fucking underrated!

MGS4 really should of had this, the more I think about it, the more I see the possibility's that could happen. I wanna go write a small fan fic about this. MGS4 needs to be remade, and retconed, the series would be so much better if it was.

ok 1.I can fight my own arguments im just not gonna both replying to you cause you dont listen. Our MSN chat for example
2.You cant stop someone from getting on a site
3.who are you to judge someone if they are a fan of a series or not? Then again what do I know im just a "movie buff who likes games"

Firstly. I didn't reply on MSN, cause like I said, I had to leave for school. And the other time I was busy, and was talking to several other people at the same time. I'm not gonna debate MGS while talking to other people. To many things at once.

[nemesiswontdie]

ok now answer 3

[Darkmoon]

Any chance of treating each other with respect, folks? Any chance at all?

Last warning for this thread people. No more being rude to each other, no more personal comments.

[Member_of_STARS]

And here's a problem.

I'm not gonna bash MGS4 because I enjoyed watching it (haven't played the game because I don't own PS3 and I don't really find MGS gameplay amusing - it was all about the story for me; therefore I only watched a several hour long montage of cut-scenes and important gameplay parts). However you can't say that everything in MGS4 was logical (or even short or simple). For the most parts it looks as if Kojima just take every single character that was still alive in the series and throw it in MGS4, sometimes for almost no reason. Sometimes it felt like a really bad fanfic (and no, I've never been a fan of those "let's all STARS members join together and attack Umbrella HQ!" storylines); not to mention, the game retconned almost everything from the previous games (especially MGS2).

(huge MGS4 spoilers ahead -- I know that this thread is full of them but I think it would be nice to warn people first ;)).

Johnny. Poor little Johnny that served as a comic relief in MGS1, MGS2, (MGS3 - I know it wasn't him, just hist father or grandfather) and act 1 and the beginning of act 3 of MGS4. He was just a dumb soldier that had constant diarrhoea; seeing how he acted in act 1 of MGS4 I really wonder how he even survived Shadow Moses... Ok, a comic relief character again. But no, wait, here comes the end of act 3, where he reveals his face and omg - it's Prince Charming. And suddenly he's a serious character, know how to fight (the fight with the frogs in act 5) and propose to Meryl because he always loved her since she knocked him down on Shadow Moses... uhm... yeah...

Raiden. I'm one of those who really liked him in MGS2, he was different from Snake in almost every possible way and that what made him special. But no, there were people that went "lol Raiden is sooo gay" and what Kojima did? He made Raidenovich in MGS3 - who was your stereotypical gay character, a coward and a total jackass all at once; oh, and he had Raiden's poster in his cabinet ("lol Raiden is sooo gay"); not to mention Snake Eraser from MGS3: Subsistance. Then there was that teaser for MGS4 (the one made on MGS3 engine) where there were sparkles all over Raiden and he was beaten by a Snake. And it was strange because in lots of interviews Kojima was saying that he was sad that Raiden was so bad received by gamers and that he wants people to like him (and that's why you made fun of him in MGS3, right?).
But here comes MGS4 and... Raiden is turned into a Gray Fox wannabe, and people actually started to like him ("Raiden is sooo badass! :O I want to play as him!"). But it wasn't the Raiden, the one from MGS2, it was just another cyborg ninja. Not to mention, in MGS2 we left Raiden after he destroyed the shadow of his past, when he actually started to live a new life, when he "found something to pass along to the future.", and wanted to "teach that to our children". We left him and Rose together with the happy ending. But then comes MGS4 - Raiden still can't deal with his past, leaves (pregnant) Rose (you can't tell me you didn't know she might be pregnant; at that age you should know where does babies come from), turns himself into a cyborg and goes fighting again. Character's development? Not really, it's rather throw everything he achieved in the previous game out of the window and make him into a bad ass ninja. :/
It's especially hilarious that at the end of MGS4 Raiden is "oh, we will be a happy family from now on"... you did this at the end of MGS2 too and you failed, you know?

And no, making Rose married Campbell (an old man she didn't know) and saying that it's his child she born wasn't logical either.

Vamp. Was it ever answered why Vamp is there? Why was he ever working with Ocelot - the scum who killed both of his lovers and was partially responsible for the destruction of his team? Not to mention, from what I remember Dead Cell never wanted to deal with The Patriots - it was always Solidus' goal. All Dead Cell wanted was revenge on people for accusing them of being "killers responsible for the mass-murder of civilians as well as our own allies", nothing more.
I also didn't like that they retconned all Vamp's powers from MGS2. Running on water and walls? He had special boots (even though he didn't in MGS2). Can survive being shot twice in the forehead and drown? Yeah, he has fast healing abilities, but nanomachines also helped. Why was it ever necessary to explain that? Was it ever explained how Mantis could levitate and read people's mind? Was it ever explained how Octopus could drink other's blood and change into them? How Fortune actually managed to stop rockets without her device? How The Fear had almost no bones, The Pain could control bees etc? No. So why do you need to explain Vamp's abilities even though the explanation have no sense.

Big Boss. Let's just say that bringing him back from dead only to make out with Snake, describe what really happened (yeah, who needs a several hours long cut-scenes when you really needs just one huge monologue at the end of the game) and then dies... for real this time (at least I hope so).

There are more problems with characters and the story (some were described by missvalentine already); it isn't anything game or story breaking and as I've said I enjoyed watching MGS4, but I can see why some people might think that MGS4 doesn't deserve the hype it gets.

*ahem*

So much wasted time and space. Im not going to even read through this bee-ess. Im just writing this to let you know that the part you quoted had nothing to do with Metal Gear Solid.

[Mr_Zombie]

Damn... *facepalm*
I've quickly read your post during the break at work and started writing the post and somehow thought that part was about MGS4... Oh well, at least I added my $0.02 to the discussion about MGS4.

[Vector]

"Oh lolz I ALWAYS loved you from the start druggy woman, all that BS about me being hurt from my ex that died? LOLZ not important."

That's not what happened at all. Roger was trying to move on the whole time. He always had feelings for Mimi but he suppressed them because he was HIV-positive and didn't want to bother getting involved with someone and end up sharing the virus with another person he cared about. It was only when she revealed to him that she was also HIV-positive that he realized things could work out with her.

[Inferno04]

That's not what happened at all. Roger was trying to move on the whole time. He always had feelings for Mimi but he suppressed them because he was HIV-positive and didn't want to bother getting involved with someone and end up sharing the virus with another person he cared about. It was only when she revealed to him that she was also HIV-positive that he realized things could work out with her.

That's just it. It's just another reason I don't like R.E.N.T. It's another musical that tries to play off of melodrama, but ends up becoming downright annoying, and embarassing to its cause.

Roger. It's called a condom. Angel actually lived life to its fullest despite HIV, so why couldn't everyone else? This just makes the other characters look wishy washy for having the problems, which in truth, are realistic. It's two extremes of the spectrum, and in the end, Roger didn't really move on at all in my opinion. He never got over the FEAR of being in a relationship with someone while HIV-positive. He just got "lucky" that Mimi was also positive. This should've been a sad realization but it's treated positive as well, for the sake of the relationship.

[Mii85]

MOST OVERRATED GAMES
- Halo (multi player is good. Single player decent)
- Killzone 2 (multi player pretty good. Single player decent)
- World of Warcraft (pffff...)

Halo and Killzone could be great if I enjoyed online gaming. Saddly I don't.

MOST OVERRATED FILM
- The Dark Knight

[Sina]

http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?tt0068646

The interweb has spoken. Godfather 1/2 are brilliant, you just have to have an attention span greater than a humming bird. And jumping on the MGS hate bandwagon. I just think the taste and sense of humor of the people making those games feels alien to me. Grabbing Raiden's cock going "hey! You're not a woman!" isn't funny to me, just creepy as fuck. Technically those games are amazing, but I hate the strange, jerky, unnatural animations every game in that series has.

[I_Am_Nemesis]

Godfather isnt meant for a young audience. Dont take it as an insult, but unless you reach 20+ in your age, you should stay away from it. I first saw it when I was around 13 or so. Thought it was boring, and later told to myself that I would watch it when I felt I was ready. At 23 I finally did, and I got the full experience of the whole trilogy. The first one is not the best movie of all times, but its close. I personally rank "Shawshank Redemption" as the #1.


-

Most overrated movies? Considering I really like movies, I dont really know of an overrated pic. This years phenomenon, "Twilight" would definitely qualify, though. Holy shit how it swept the worlds teen population, and its not even a good movie...

I know that im digging up pretty old stuff but i couldnt resist. I saw Godfather when i was 15 and thought it was simply amazing, really was, sure it wasnt an action epic but i just loved it. It is true though that it is aimed at older people as the younger generation generally prefer epic battles and big explosions (being one of the younger generation i can account for that lol).

God i was dragged to the twilight film by a couple of girls and dear god was it the most sickeningly cheesey piece of crap i have ever seen. I mean i like some romance films, Titanic for example, is a great film and i love it but Twilight was just terrible and incredibly boring.