Creationism vs. Evolution

[Mr. Rod]

Why are people so harsh on eachother's opinions? No wonder why all these debates that should create a healthy conversation turn into personal attacks that in the end has nothing to do with the topic.

Creationism, Evolution, or both... neither have been proven to be true, otherwise they wouldn't be theories. I believe if we want to learn new things we should be open to the "mistery" and accept all kind of possibilites, contrast them, etc. that way we'll learn more and more instead of being one-sided.

Peace.

[Mr. Spencer]

Richard Dawkins turned up and created us all from his own ribs.

[VirusPunk]

I am a atheist satanist, which means I don't believe in a God, but still practice satanic rituals for kicks. Therefore, evolution all the way...

[Darkmoon]

If evolution is not 100% proven then how do explain your immune system?

Evolution is not 100% proven. Hence why it's refered to as a theory. It's got a lot of evidence backing it up (just not as much as you might believe) and is almost certainly correct. But there is no deffinitive proof. That's something that you have to bear in mind for most science. None of the proof is absoloute, as a general rule.

A creationist would argue that we were essentially created with our immunue system functioning and ready to adapt as God willed it. Personally I reckon they're wrong and our immune systems have developed over the course of our evoloution, but to each there own.

Of course we all know that they're all ~6000 years old.

Yeah, that one is a screw up. Event hough radiocarbon dating gets messy after a certain point due to atmospheric events and we can, at best, make calculated adjustments to take it into account (the validity of such is in question too) there is actual dated documents from several socities that use a dating system we are familiar with, and place themselves before this date. It's not conclusive evidence (nothing ever is) but it certainly hints towards that one being pretty wrong.

Interesting fact though. The Torah (and possibly the Bible, I'm not sure) never actually givers a number for the age of the world. The age of the world was calculated by scholars using the events in the Torah as a basis for there time table. A lot of religious people take it as a fact but it's not, it's one of man's opinions.

Whereas the bible has?

Interestingly there is a certain amount of evidence to back up at least some fof it. Evidence of a Great Flood in the Mediteranian after an ice age, evidence of Sodom, evidence of this and that. And then there's something about pigs. I forget exactly what but something about there feet being unique in mamals being mentioned, and so far being correct. It's certainly not hardcore evidence but it's actually not as far off from the Big Bang Theory (which has very little evidence backing it up as well) as you might think.

There is no god, so the answer is: evolution is a reality

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion...but saying there is no God is like saying there is no other planet with out life. Impossible to proove. You say he doesn't meet the standards set down in religious texts and all you've proven is that texts of humans are wrong, which doesn't disprove God. In the end, that's how pretty much every argument against God goes...you just proove people are wrong, not that he doesn't exist.

Why are people so harsh on eachother's opinions? No wonder why all these debates that should create a healthy conversation turn into personal attacks that in the end has nothing to do with the topic.

Creationism, Evolution, or both... neither have been proven to be true, otherwise they wouldn't be theories. I believe if we want to learn new things we should be open to the "mistery" and accept all kind of possibilites, contrast them, etc. that way we'll learn more and more instead of being one-sided.

Peace.

Yeah, I hate these topics. As I mentioned in one of the earlier posts the number of time I've seen, 'You believe in God? You fucking idiot' in one form or another always, always depresses me. I respect other folks believes but because mine are seen as archaic for daring to have faith and hope so I'm some kinda retard.

Of course, some religious fruit cakes also scream at me because I don't go in for the seven day creation with a 6000 year history.

Yeah, at the end of the day there isn't much evidence for my view. But then, there wouldn't be a need for faith if it was all cut and clean and dried, now would there? So I choose to have faith and I choose to hope. When I die I hope I'll see my loved ones again and continue onwards. If I'm wrong, I'll never know, because all that awaits is oblivion. If I'm right? I am taking the piss out you lot for the next few thousand years.

[Stars_g36]

Probably a very touchy subject...hmm Im more for evolution...but I don't think this topic is appropriate due to peoples beliefs. Could see bad stuff happening.

[missvalentine]

Alright, themedic and missv, your lack of understanding of the scientific process is just staggering. Picture this..

I understand it, I just disagree with it.

It's not "just a theory" like you Creationists would say. Gravity is "just a theory" in that same meaning. To hear you say you don't believe it "because it sounds like something out of a b sci fi movie" is just aggravating as hell, since you're just shitting all over hundreds of years of work and research.

The hundreds of years of research was wasted time and was not needed. The answers were already there in the Bible. Read Medic's post.

The "theory" of evolution has survived such an intense amount of scrutiny from the smartest and best educated people on earth, that there's really no reason to question the basics of it. The only reason people question it is because it contradicts the bible, and that's just tragic. Sure, there's probably alot we don't know about evolution left to learn, but that's the point of science. Scientists are the first to admit they don't know everything.

So has the Bible, in fact you could mirror that and mix the words Bible and Theory of Evolution around and it would be true. Here let me show you.

"The Bible has survived such an intense amount of scrutiny from the smartest and best educated people on earth, that there's really no reason to question the basics of it. The only reason people question it is because it contradicts the "theory" of evolution, and that's just tragic. Sure, there's probably alot we don't know about God and Creation left to learn, but that's the point of faith. Christians are the first to admit we don't know everything."

See.

Now, let me ask you, do you think the theory of Creationism/intelligent design has survived the scientific process? No it has not. No respectable scientist will take it seriously. It has been shot to hell.

Notice how you said Respectable Scientists? In other words Scientists who are evolutionists and are biased. There are many scientists out there who think evolution is a load of BS too you know. And not just Christian ones.

[randomwab]

Evolution never really made to much sense to me. I mean, if it were real, why would monkeys still be alive. Shouldn't they have evolved by now, like we did? Am I missing something?

[Darkmoon]

Evolution never really made to much sense to me. I mean, if it were real, why would monkeys still be alive. Shouldn't they have evolved by now, like we did? Am I missing something?

Well, the theory goes that so long as something is suited to an area and nothing better comes along to kick it out it'll be fine. No mutation monkeys have come up with have completely supplanted them (bar us, and we're killing them off pretty damned quick) so they're still around

Essentially, evolution is the idea that a random mutation will have benefits...faster, stronger, smarter, whatever. That mutation will survive and prosper, taking food and living space away from the older version. So long as that doesn't happen the older version survive, such as sharks and crocodiles.

Of course, these mutations are exceptionally rare. Most mutations are harmful or lethal. Even many that have a benefit have a nasty side effect, such as rendering them impotent and incapable of passing the mutation along. The best evidence so far is germs, which have a much more rapid rate of birth and change than any normal creature.

The hundreds of years of research was wasted time and was not needed. The answers were already there in the Bible. Read Medic's post.

No. Just...no. The Bible is where we start. Not where we end. It doesn't hold all the answers, and was never meant to. There's a wonderful bit of speech from a rabbi that goes something like, 'Science and religion are completely compatible and don't contradict each other. The problem is we currently don't understand enough about either to make them work together.'

Science is just as essential to understanding God as religion is. To understand the mechanics of the universe is to see the incredible detail of God's work, to gain more clues as to His plan. We gain as much understanding from working out how things relate on a scale so tiny that it was impossible to think of it a few hundred years ago as we do from the most ancient lore.

[Member_of_STARS]

Evolution never really made to much sense to me. I mean, if it were real, why would monkeys still be alive. Shouldn't they have evolved by now, like we did? Am I missing something?

Sweet Jesus Christ! Thats it! Why has noone else, EVER EVER thought of this? This proves Gods existence! Monkeys should be dead!

Its extremely difficult to not to bulge into this conversation, but considering how easy it is to rip apart pro-creationists arguments, and how long it could in turn last, Im going to stay out of this. But I will occasionally pop in for lulz and giggles. And yes, me being off topic and spamming is actually just as much wrong as some of these arguments here. Talking about religion is not a discussion of opinions, which is why it will always get heated up. Its not "apples and oranges". Theres the truth and then theres the "truth".

Its a battle of arguments, facts, figures and history, against stubborness, myth, ignorance and lack of education and critical thought. There will be friction.

So. Monkeys. This is not how evolution works, even though evolutionary patterns are being witnessed in their process right now as we speak. In simplified version-

Species A lives long and prospers
At the corner of the territory where Species A lives, where the conditions are much harsher, the tribes and groups are required to do much more to survive. Over some time, Species B evolves, which is much stronger compared to Species A. Species B then starts to grow in numbers, overtaking the weaker Species A territory. And it may or may not continue until Species A extinction. But considering that this is a planet and not a park, this is likely to happen over a long period of time.

Now. If Species A was a monkey, and Species B were us, what do you think is happening right now? You know, all the media conspiracy BS about some forrests and shit being taken down at extraordinary rate. Global warming and lots of species on the verge of extinction? Lots of "monkeys" included?

[missvalentine]

No. Just...no. The Bible is where we start. Not where we end. It doesn't hold all the answers, and was never meant to. There's a wonderful bit of speech from a rabbi that goes something like, 'Science and religion are completely compatible and don't contradict each other. The problem is we currently don't understand enough about either to make them work together.'

Science is just as essential to understanding God as religion is. To understand the mechanics of the universe is to see the incredible detail of God's work, to gain more clues as to His plan. We gain as much understanding from working out how things relate on a scale so tiny that it was impossible to think of it a few hundred years ago as we do from the most ancient lore.

Sorry i didn't make myself clearer. I meant research into trying to prove evolution true is a waste of time in my opinion. I agree about what you said though. Science in general is a very good thing.

[Darkmoon]

Nothing is ever worthless. If evolution is correct, as I believe it is, then it shows God has some real forward planning skills. It shows the incredible detail of the living organism, how even the most simple creature is ever changing to better fit God's Plan.

If it's wrong then we know that there were a number of creatures that were destroyed somehow. Why? None of the religious texts mention those creatures being destroyed. They're not mentioned at all.

Either way it's not wasted research from a religious view point.

[Canas Renvall]

Evolution never really made to much sense to me. I mean, if it were real, why would monkeys still be alive. Shouldn't they have evolved by now, like we did? Am I missing something?

Okay, this is where I get a teeny bit pissed off. Like I said before, I believe in both God and evolution, so I'm not just pro-evolution just because of this statement. Anyway, everytime I hear something like this, or "I'm no monkey!", etc etc., it gets on my nerves.

Evolution is not saying that humans came from monkeys or chimpanzees.

It's saying that chimps and humans have a common ancestor. It doesn't automatically mean that we were monkeys once, just that we had a common ancestor and with a little fusion on the second chromosome for some of the ancestor species, the path split. The path then widened over millions of years, and there you have it: humans and chimps/monkeys.

[kylehimself]

Evolution... haha. Theory presented as fact.

Check this guy http://www.creationresearch.net/ palaeontologist who uses science to de-bunk evolution and the like. Good stuff if you can find the appropriate texts and audio track. (I have cd and am not gonna fish through the site for info, so look for yourself)

I'm no Christian myself but Darwinites are laughable. Amazin' how such educated people can talk such crap, if only they could hear themselves. I love how they present all their "factual" evidence with "We think." at the beginning.

[kylehimself]

7Okay, this is where I get a teeny bit pissed off. Like I said before, I believe in both God and evolution

Who are you the Catholic Church? You believe in God and evolution. That's not how it works, that's just cop out to try and accommodate everybody. It makes no sense; the Bible and evolution just don't go. Sorry.

Evolution is not saying that humans came from monkeys or chimpanzees.

Correct, but instead it suggests we started as a single cell and then turned into see animals which crawled onto land. (Which is balls) and here comes the best bit. Then some of the other animals went "Shit, let’s go back in." (Oh snap) So they did. Some of these where sea mammals, who then decided that fur wasn't a good insulator in water so they chose blubber (a nice note from the whale dissection on C4) as you do. Much like choosing a new car they just decided it was better so it was... So the evolutionist says anyway.
I think this is a fitting example as one of the rubbish ideas these people like to pollute our minds with.

I like this idea though. Maybe if I tell my children and there children an so on and so on to decide to get taller an stronger as they grow then eventually a few generations down there will be a troop of super Spence’s. EF YEAH!

If we did all come from a common ancestor then why have all the homo-whatever species between chimps and us die out whilst we and the wee monkeys remain? Why is homo-caveman not in the zoo bashin’ rocks together to get some fire for all of use see?

[kylehimself]

I don't believe in a God, but still practice satanic rituals for kicks.

You're an idiot. That comment makes no sense and whats better is that you seem to be aware of it.