MMA

[TheBlackMamba]

1. If Ali hadn't taken a hiatus, he could've taken Frazier on in the first fight

2. Tyson 80s and 90s wasn't a matter of being past prime but the mental effect Cus D'Amatos death had on Tyson

3. A lot of Tyson fights ended due to refee's stopping it when you can clearly see the fighter was more than capable of fighting, one even pushed the referee cus he stopped it, so Tyson must not have as many wins as he has on his record according to you.

[kevstah2004]

1. What hiatus? he beat Oscar Bonavena and Jerry Quarry in 1970.
2. Tyson 80s and 90s wasn't just a matter of being past his prime but also the mental effect Cus D'Amatos death had on Tyson, according to you him getting accused of rape / battery banned from fighting most in countries didn't have any effect then.
3. Yes I'd agree with that.

[TheBlackMamba]

1. What do you mean no hiatus? the 3 years when Ali was stripped of his boxing license, not to mention Ali had more body age on him than Frazier due to more fights

2. Tyson during 80's to early 90's was within, not past Tyson's prime

3. Then a lot of boxers shouldn't have as many wins? Sugar Ray's "St Valentine's Day Massacre" against LaMotta shouldn't count as a Sugar Ray win although Sugar Ray dominated LaMotta?

[kevstah2004]

1. He came back in 1970 to fight the two boxers I mentioned prior to fighting Frazier how is that a hiatus? just because he didn't fight in 67, 68 and 69 your logic is flawed.
2. That's what I meant during the mid nineties onwards Tyson was rubbish.
3. A fight should only be stopped if the opposing fighter can no longer defend her/himself and is constantly getting bombarded imo a lot referee's jump the gun in this respect without giving the fighter enough time to recover and fight back a few lucky punches and they deem the fight over.

[TheBlackMamba]

1. 2 fights isn't enough after 3 years, any boxer with any idea of the sport knows that
2. Yea but you clearly stated 80s as well
3. Frazier getting mauled by Foreman, so, your idea of Frazier being GOAT can't make sense, this must mean Foreman is GOAT, you and your odd thinking lol

back to this

do u think Marciano is GOAT due to his record?

[kevstah2004]

1. 2 fights isn't enough after 3 years, any boxer with any idea of the sport knows that
2. Yea but you clearly stated 80s as well
3. Frazier getting mauled by Foreman, so, your idea of Frazier being GOAT can't make sense, this must mean Foreman is GOAT, you and your odd thinking lol

back to this

do u think Marciano is GOAT due to his record?

1. Maybe not but he should of hit the gym hard especially given it was his first major fight in 4 years against a current undefeated champion if it was me I would of been hyped hitting the gym any opportunity I got, it's not like he didn't know what he was getting into, Ali's complacency and I'm the best attitude tripped him up simple.
2. That was just a mistake of the way I quoted you.
3. I rank Foreman highly yes but he lost to Ali so I can't consider him to be the GOAT maybe if he'd had a rematch against Ali and won, we'll never know we will, I mean if he can beat Frazier on two separate occasions he should of been able to wipe the floor with Ali.

Well the Rocky film was made for a reason I don't deem him to be the GOAT either since the level of competition has vastly improved since his era the only memorable name that pops to mind that he fought was Joe Louis.

[TheBlackMamba]

1 & 3. Styles make fights my friend, that's just how the fight game is, Ali lost that first fight due to Frazier's contrasting style, he won the other two cus he learned from his defeat like a true fighter, Ali wasn't a raging animal like Frazier was, he was the smart fighter, and his smarts got him through the Rumble In The Jungle, the game is as mental as it is physical, there's a reason it's called the sweet science

Exactly, records mean nothing, so you bringing up Frazier's 4 to ALi's 5 should be void

Jou Louis still wouldn't count as Louis was very old and fought only to pay off debt

[kevstah2004]

It is void, I did it to put Ali and Frazier on a level playing field one loss to each over with the other as a draw, I still believe Frazier was overall better though and I deem him to be the GOAT because of it, Frazier only lost to two separate opponents where as Ali lost to three if you take away his loses from Norton and Spinks.

[TheBlackMamba]

how so is Frazier overall better than Ali?

Cus Ali:
- Great sense of boxing
- Great footwork
- Astounding handspeed
- Great chin
- heart of a lion
- pure raw skill

Frazier is great, he had the heart of a lion also, but I can't see anyway as how he's overall better, Frazier's style was a lack of skill mixed with raw power, and I don't mean he has no skill at all, cus you need it to be a boxer, and his head movement was great, but otherwise that his style was a less polished version of the "good" Mike Tyson

[kevstah2004]

It's my opinion that he was overall better in all three fights than Ali.

[TheBlackMamba]

the Ali/Frazier trilogy was always a story of 3 fights in 1

Ali would do well in the beginning
Frazier would come back in middle rounds
Ali would do better in the end of the fight to win

[kevstah2004]

Ali took more of beating due to Frazier's raw power, Ali did come back at him in spits and spots but he lacked the power to really damage him, Ali came off worse imo, I don't judge fights on punches landed I judge them on who look worse for ware at end of the fight, had the 3rd fight carried on I think there would been a strong possibility Frazier would of won due to Ali's depletion / lethargy even though Ali whooped him in the previous round.

[TheBlackMamba]

that's not true clearly in their fights Ali hurt Frazier, and he'd land 5 pucnhes to Fraziers 1

[kevstah2004]

I'm not saying he didn't hurt him i'm just saying he wasn't anywhere near as powerful to create internal and external damage, Ali was a speed fighter / jabber which meant less power in his punches 3/5 Ali punches = 1/2 Frazier punches.
It's a shame I haven't got FN4 i'd own your Ali on XBL, lol
by the way what view do you use?, I always use overhead on FN3.

[TheBlackMamba]

what? you crazy lol I'd murder you with Ali in FNR4, I use the regular default camera style, and in FNR3 Frazier gets owned by ALi all the time, odd that they gave Ali a weak body and Frazier a weak chin, I guess they didn't want the game to be unfair for them