Alien and Predator Saga Discussion Topic.

[missvalentine]

^My list of Predator, Alien, and Aliens wasn't in order of my own personal tastes, it was just a list (in no particular order) of the only 3 decent films from your poll up top.

I guessed that already, but I wouldn't so the only decent ones.

Alien 3 is not a bad film, per se, it just was so far removed from what was in the beloved, stellar second film, that it ended up alienating (pun intended!) many fans. I know I was personally crushed that Newt & Hicks (the best character from Aliens, IMO) were practically cast aside in a sickening, careless way. Looking back on the film now, I can accept Fincher's vision...but I still mostly feel that it really destroyed everything Cameron set up. Really, I guess I'd like to imagine that 3 and Resurrection aren't canon.

Yeah I thought it ruined a lot of what Cameron had set up for too. I mean Camera followed on from what Scott set up so well, it felt all natural and was just perfection. I think it was the fact Fincher, and, I believe the producer I think, had a huge disagreement about how the film should go. I think if Fincher had it his own way it would have been a lot better. I still need to watch Alien 3 directors cut, I hear it's far better than the original.

Hicks was great, and so was newt, there were no bad characters in Aliens I don't think. Hudson was probably my favorite along with Ripely though.

Resurrection - I want to like it more than I do. But the characters were too uninteresting (not to mention "cartoony"), and the Alien hybrid was just...dumb. The film had good pacing, and the non-CGI aliens looked bitchin. However, I find it odd that you criticize Alien 3's special effects, when Resurrection's FX (far more advanced in '97) are also quite bad. Only 2 things about Resurrection really stick out in my mind (and neither have much to do with the film, sadly indicating why I think it sucked):

- I fondly recall the scene where the raspy-voiced dude is massaging the feet of the lady with the SUPER HOT ass (which the camera lingers on)
- and I saw this film the same day I saw Mortal Kombat Annihilation, easily one of the worst things committed to celluloid

I didn't think the characters were that uninteresting. Probably the supporting cast yes, but the Ripley clone was great I think, and I liked Winona Ryder's character. I think Raspy voice dude should have been in it longer too.

I did make a complaint about Resurrections use of CGI somewhere around here too. just didn't mention it again. But compared to Alien 3's extremely low quality and noticeable 3D Aliens models, Resurrection wasn't so bad. But still noticeable. But the Non CGI Aliens more than made up for it. They were fucking epic, I loved how the saliva drooled out of there mouths.

The girl had a nice butt too. I was like When she died.

As for Predator 2...I liked it more when I saw it as a kid. It's basically the same exact film as the first one, only set in a cityscape with less memorable characters.

AvP1 is utter trash, while I thought AvP2 was gonna be good but it was just too dark of a film to be able to tell what was going on. I do remember the pool scene though. That blonde girl is also SUPER HOT!

Same thing with Predator 2, I used to like it a lot, when I saw it ages ago, I watched them all recently again though and I realized it just doesn't compare to the rest. It's still good though. But again, early 90's CGI is terrible and the last scene where Glover is in the Predator's space craft it's so painfully obvious it's done with a green screen cut out.

I hate AVP1 and APV2. But I hate 2 more because it doesn't even attempt to be like either series at all. And it's just a Predator Jizz fest having one single Predator kill everything in it's path with ease. I mean, in AVP1 at least they were evenly matched. A few Aliens die and all the Predators die, it's even. But AVP2 has a single Predator kill an entire fucking army of Aliens, and a bunch of humans, and the bloody useless PredAlien is hunting for him the whole time and can't even kill him. Fucking directors were Predator fanboys and fucked up the continuity so bad. I listened to the commentary and they even laughed about how Alien fans would respond to it. I was like FUCKING DICKS!! Ruined the series completely. I hate AVP2 so much. It was just a slasher film with a Predator killing Aliens and humans instead of Jason killings teens having sex.

AVP1 was terrible too, but wasn't as bad I thought, at least it was somewhat like the other series. And I did think the opening half of the film was well done. It's just as soon as they entered the pyramid, the movie went to shit. The Alien and the Predator wrestling each other was almost as stupid and Nemesis and Alice in a boxing match. WTF has Anderson got wrong with him, he wants everyone to do hand to hand combat. I wouldn't not be surprised if zombies did kung fu in his new RE film.

And yes, AVP2 was way to fucking dark. If you have an LCD or wide screen don't even bother watching it. It's a little brighter on a standard TV though, or you could just turn the brightness up. But then again a blank dark screen is somewhat better than the movie. And I hated that PredAlien too. It was so stupid.

[Jill's Boob]

I guessed that already, but I wouldn't so the only decent ones.

Well, the ones on the list almost don't even belong in the same company as Alien, Aliens, or Predator.

I think if Fincher had it his own way it would have been a lot better. I still need to watch Alien 3 directors cut, I hear it's far better than the original.

I have not seen the director's cut yet either, but regardless, unless it is an entirely different film, Alien 3 and its story direction still take a dump on every fan's hopes and dreams for the characters/story post-Aliens.

Hicks was great

You're goddamn right about that.

I loved how the saliva drooled out of there mouths.

I do believe that is KY Jelly that the puppeteers use on set.

early 90's CGI is terrible

Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park would like to talk to you. Both of those films still look better than many of the special FX laden pieces of shit ushered out nowadays.

[missvalentine]

EDIT: AvP1 is just such a bad, bad film. God it sucks. Horrible, wooden characters; convoluted inane story; fat bulky predators; Aliens that didn't even feel like Aliens! Isn't the director the same shitsack that does the wretched RE films?

EDIT 2: Yup, just looked it up. It's the same worthless director, Paul W.S. Anderson. Not only did he direct, but he wrote the screenplay. This guy is a double-threat (emphasis on the threat) to anything decent. How can you take Aliens & Predators, make 'em fight, and still completely fuck it up? And he could have even stolen from those awesome Dark Horse graphic novels from way back when. Yet he took solid elements and mixed them into a bag of crap.

How do Paul W. S. Anderson and Stephen (Van Helsing - almost as bad as Mortal Kombat Annihilation) Sommers still find work?

I still need to go read those AVP comics, they look good. I think Andersons career had just rode on the success of Event Horizon. Not sure about Sommers but I liked the visuals in Van Helsing. I didn't think it was overly bad.

And yes, the Aliens in AVP were not Aliens. They were like a mix between a regular Xenomorph and the Runner from Alien 3. They were to insect like and walked mainly on four legs. In Alien the Alien was much more thicker and walked on two legs for most of the time. Same as in Aliens and Resurrection.

Just look at this difference.


From Alien.


From the AVP game. Couldn't find a screen cap from Andersons movie but they moved like little weak insects.

It just makes them seem so much less threatening.

I have not seen the director's cut yet either, but regardless, unless it is an entirely different film, Alien 3 and its story direction still take a dump on every fan's hopes and dreams for the characters/story post-Aliens.

Rombie knows more about it that I do. Hopefully he will see this and respond.

I think originally Alien 3 was meant to be in a completely wooden planet or something like that. But the directors cut is a lot closer to what Fincher wanted than the end product anyways.

Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park would like to talk to you. Both of those films still look better than many of the special FX laden pieces of shit ushered out nowadays.

My god, how could I forgot those. I should have elaborated more. I meant lower budget 90's films. But yeah 1993's Jurassic Park (My third favorite film of all time) still has better visual effects than just about every movie today even. And the fact that they actually used a giant model for the T-Rex instead of making it 100% CGI was a masterstroke by Spielberg. I don't think CGI will ever look as real as something that is actually there. So building a huge creature then aiding it with CGI is the best way around it I think. Sadly today most directors just go full CGI.

Nothing will ever surpass this realism!



Transformers 2 looks like shit compared to that. I think the best full CGI film ever was probably Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. ILM did a spectacular job at creating it with Lucas. But you can still see it's fake in some parts.

Terminator 2 is another great film. James Cameron is a brilliant man.

[TheSelfishGene]

I really like Alien and Aliens. Not such a fan of Predator.
I re-installed AVP2 on my lap top, and it doesn't run well at all. Very disappointing. I'll get around to replaying it one day. It really is a fantastic game, and someone said it was made by Gearbox, and they had a hand in Half Life: Opposing force, which is another awesome game.

[Member_of_STARS]

Im probably going to be stoned to death here, but I liked Alien 3. It ditched a lot of favourites and the militarized theme which got great feedback was dropped aswell, but at the same time the movie remained very close to the vision of future world shown in both Alien and Aliens. They didnt just drop the concept, they just showed a different location from the same universe. I didnt find any experience-breaking flaws except for the fact that it would have been incredibly difficult to beat what Aliens had achieved. And most people were let down by that.

Alien Resurrection however is complete, inexcusable, utter trash. The aliens were given a lot of "human" features like great teeth, shiverling lips. The whole key to the xenomorphs effect on the viewer was that they were so inhuman. The whole alien sexual themes and "family" sh!t that was going on, it was completely unnecessary. And then we get to the whole arsenal part. Compare the arsenal of the troops in A4 to Aliens. Which one feels more "realistic" and which one makes more sense? The characters were all built on "were cool because were badass" and most of that crap was overplayed. It became ridiculous when Christie just figured it would be cool to kill himself just because it looked great on screen. Theres only two scenes worth remembering-

A) That great ass
B) The hybrids death scene
and maybe the whiskey cubes, those were pretty cool

I dont think its wrong to enjoy A4, but I personally am not seeing it as part of the Alien saga, just as Im ignoring AVP and AVP2 aswell.

As for Predator and Predator 2. I love them both. Arnie made the first one, but Danny definitely kept the boat rocking in the second one. Both perfectly cast. Although I must say that there were a couple of more of those moments where you wished the characters werent that stupid, in Predator 2.

And then theres AVP2 game, which had the same tone and same scares as in the respective movies. The use of the motion tracker to create tention and give you scares is brilliant. And then they went ahead and came up with the expansion pack where the 180 degree vision for the tracker was replaced by a full 360 degree tracking... Idiots.

[CODE_umb87]

I've never really been a Predator fan, however, I am a huge Alien fan. Aliens will always be my favorite in the series, with Alien close behind it.

Bitch ftw


I can't stand that AVP crap, AVPR was a disgrace. It had a horrible setting, annoying characters, and the Hybrid with it's big bobblehead, lol.

I really don't dislike any of the Alien films, yeah some are better than others, but all of them are great films. The only film I had a small problem with was Alien 3,Spoiler:

show spoiler

I didn't like how they just killed off two good characters and isolated Ripley again

. But than again, I think 3 has the most epic ending in the entire series.

[Guest]

i saw the aliens series a long time ago, I should rent them again. And the Predator movies were bad, both, though I liked the first one a little better. And do I even have to say anything about the Alien vs Predator movies???!!! well, it's simple as this: they suck!!!!! both!!! though... the first one was a bit better than the second one

[missvalentine]

Im probably going to be stoned to death here, but I liked Alien 3.

I was wondering who voted for Alien 3, and I'm surprised it was you. Well I don't hate any of them, (Except AVP's) But I don't think 3 was the best step they could of taken after 2.

But at least Fincher did his own thing with it and didn't make a clone copy of 2 either.

I think you could be partly right there, that Aliens is a hard act to follow. But I just think it could of been a lot better. It was still, overall a good film though I think.

Alien Resurrection however is complete, inexcusable, utter trash. The aliens were given a lot of "human" features like great teeth, shiverling lips. The whole key to the xenomorphs effect on the viewer was that they were so inhuman. The whole alien sexual themes and "family" sh!t that was going on, it was completely unnecessary. And then we get to the whole arsenal part. Compare the arsenal of the troops in A4 to Aliens. Which one feels more "realistic" and which one makes more sense? The characters were all built on "were cool because were badass" and most of that crap was overplayed. It became ridiculous when Christie just figured it would be cool to kill himself just because it looked great on screen.

I felt the more realistic Aliens were quite frightening. I think it just comes with the advances of technology. I did love the whole scene were the scientist is in the room and has the Aliens in the cooling chamber and they stair at each other through the glass window and he learns that the Aliens are much more smarter this time around. I thought that scenes was fantastic. And mostly due to the new realistic look of the Aliens. I can't stress how much the salivating Aliens made it so much more cooler.

Christie was the guy that fell into the water with the Alien below him right? Yeah I thought that was pretty stupid, the characters were no where near as realistic, but I still thought that overall the movie was still very good.

I've never really been a Predator fan, however, I am a huge Alien fan. Aliens will always be my favorite in the series, with Alien close behind it.

Same. I think Predator is a good film, but I just don't think it can really stand up to the Alien franchise.

I can't stand that AVP crap, AVPR was a disgrace. It had a horrible setting, annoying characters, and the Hybrid with it's big bobblehead, lol.

The Alien Predator Hybrid was a really stupid idea I thought. And it's illogical that it didn't win. I mean it's part Alien, part Predator, then why can one Predator hld it's own against it and a whole army of other Aliens? AVPR was just an utterly stupid piece of shit. If I ever meet the Strauss brothers I will surely give them a good kick to the groin for being such moronic directors.

I mean the only reason they could give as to why the Predator was sooo much better than all the other Aliens and Predators was that theirs was some sort of Predator king. It was more like a Mary Sue, the fucking Monster was a Mary Sue. Even the original Predator had some form of weakness, and it lent believability to the creature. But no this Predator is fucking superman, he takes on entire army's and still wins, it took a fucking nuke to kill him. I hated him.

And yes, setting and Alien movie in a small country town, and having it filmed like a teenage slasher flick, with teens as almost all the main characters. Was just fucking stupid and annoying. And yes the characters sucked too. There was no strong female lead, which is a staple of the Alien series, even AVP1 had a female lead. AVP2, was not Aliens Versus Predator. From the way it was written and filmed, and from what the directors commentary said. It was just a badly written Predator fan fiction, with a few Aliens thrown in because they had to.

I mean if you think about it, that's all it is. AVP2 has a male lead, something from the Predator films. It's set on earth in a town and some parts in the forest. Both Predator films right there. It follows the Predator closely, and has him kill everything. Basically a Predator film. I doubt the two dumbass directors, (TWO! It took two people to shit that out! ) even watched Alien before. It had nothing in it that even slightly resembled the Alien movies. It was just a Predator film with a few Aliens that cameo in it.

I really don't dislike any of the Alien films, yeah some are better than others, but all of them are great films. The only film I had a small problem with was Alien 3,Spoiler:

show spoiler

I didn't like how they just killed off two good characters and isolated Ripley again

. But than again, I think 3 has the most epic ending in the entire series.

I think Aliens ending was better IMO With the Alien Queen, XD. But Alien 3 would have been a lot better had Newt and hicks survived I think. It kinda made Ripely saving Newt in Aliens all kinda pointless and for nothing. Which I didn't like.

[Alzaire]

I don't think an Alien/Predator hybrid is a stupid idea. They are in the games and are very tough bastards. The movie version of it was crap though, I'd agree with that. I didn't like the way it reproduced either.

[CODE_umb87]

And yes, setting and Alien movie in a small country town, and having it filmed like a teenage slasher flick, with teens as almost all the main characters. Was just fucking stupid and annoying. And yes the characters sucked too. There was no strong female lead, which is a staple of the Alien series, even AVP1 had a female lead. AVP2, was not Aliens Versus Predator. From the way it was written and filmed, and from what the directors commentary said. It was just a badly written Predator fan fiction, with a few Aliens thrown in because they had to.

Exactly. The film focuses more on them and their dramatic personal lives rather than the aliens/predators, thats why it's such a bad movie. I was like, okay is this film about the aliens or the blonde chick

I think Aliens ending was better IMO With the Alien Queen, XD. But Alien 3 would have been a lot better had Newt and hicks survived I think. It kinda made Ripely saving Newt in Aliens all kinda pointless and for nothing. Which I didn't like.

Yeah, Aliens definitely had the happier ending. It makes me wonder what Alien 3 would have turned out to be if James Cameron had done it. Spoiler:

show spoiler

Maybe Newt could have taken Ripley's place as lead female of the series if Fincher hadn't killed her off. Too bad.

[missvalentine]

I don't think an Alien/Predator hybrid is a stupid idea. They are in the games and are very tough bastards. The movie version of it was crap though, I'd agree with that. I didn't like the way it reproduced either.

Ive only seen it in the movies. And well, the version in the movies sucked. I need to go play the AVP games. I'm sure and Alien and Predator hybrid could be pulled of quite well, but AVP2 was just terrible at everything.

Exactly. The film focuses more on them and their dramatic personal lives rather than the aliens/predators, thats why it's such a bad movie. I was like, okay is this film about the aliens or the blonde chick


Yeah, Aliens definitely had the happier ending. It makes me wonder what Alien 3 would have turned out to be if James Cameron had done it. Spoiler:

show spoiler

Maybe Newt could have taken Ripley's place as lead female of the series if Fincher hadn't killed her off. Too bad.

If James Cameron had made Alien 3 I wouldn't be surprised if Newt became the next protagonist after Ripley lol. XD That would have been interesting too.

And yeah AVP2 was just a really bad drama film kinda. It wasn't the Alien films mixed with Predator films at all. It was a Predator film mixed with Friday the 13th! The choice of directors for that film was astoundingly bad. They obviously wanted to make a complete different film than what they were employed to do. But it's like the film company didn't even care, and just wanted there money.

I think I recall James Cameron and Ridely Scott were both going to make a 5th Alien film together around the early 2000's. But once the studio announced the first AVP film and what it was going to be like. Cameron quit the project in utter disgust saying that they studio had just turned the franchise into their latest cash cow and wanted no further involvement in the series.

Which is really sad cause a 5th Alien film made my both Cameron and Scott could possibly have been one of the greatest films ever made. Yet now we have this shit Anderson left us, that got worse when the two Strauss brothers added there shit to the pile too.

[Richard Aiken]

Make it like Avp2 and I don't think anyone could complain.

As for Colonial Marines, I just hope Gearbox can pull out of their recent failures (hell's highway) and get back to making games the way they used to. Great

[Sephiroth]

What exactly is so bad about the new AVP3 game? Ive yet to play the first two but I want to though. How is it a fail? It looks ok to me.

Also does anyone think Colonial Marines sounds like it could be a tactical survival horror game?

You havent play the first two Alien vs Predator game for the PC they are both great games as for Colonial Marines on both games they are a ture survival horror game belive me there aint much lights and your radar is off Aliens so it makes that noise then an Alien is close and when there aint much light and you hear an Alien getting close belive me it get's really scary real easy. The new AVP3 is been developed by Rebellion who created the first AVP PC so it's safe to say the game will be great they know what they are doing.

[missvalentine]

^ Sounds pretty awesome. Also who in the hell voted for AVP2?

Make it like Avp2 and I don't think anyone could complain.

As for Colonial Marines, I just hope Gearbox can pull out of their recent failures (hell's highway) and get back to making games the way they used to. Great

Make what like AVP2? AVP3?

And what was wrong with Brothers in Arms Hells Highway, I thought it was pretty great from what Ive played of it.

[Member_of_STARS]

Yeah, we know Alien is epic and Aliens and Predator are also epic, but Im giving my vote for Danny Glover and Predator 2. It has exceptionally memorable characters and people had really human flare, its like people enjoyed their jobs. Even the government goons were sparky. It had some cheese and some cringeworthy "dont do that man!" moments, but the ending was epic and noone can deny that.