Literature & Video Games

[Becky's Butt]

To countinue what RM said....

And using literature read in middle/high school no less.

This is a relevant fact...how?
Being read in school just proves these stories' quality and worth.

No Ayn Rand?

If I wanted overly preachy crap, I'd watch a Televangelist.
The Fountainhead is dull and I don't agree with the blatant pro-Libertarian bent.

Romeo and Juliet isn't a book either. It's a play.

It is still literature. But since the original point was just about books, my bad.

There are games that have good stories. But you can't compare that to literature.

This is true. Games offer several things most books cannot. As I already illustrated with Silent Hill 2's amazing plot, you can choose the fate of the hero. Sadly you can't do this in the "classics" of literature.

[Darkmoon]

Never played a choose your own adventure book? I always ended up eaten by a shark. Even if there was no water nearby.

Personally, I feel that computer games and books are two such...different mediums that comparing them is almost impossible. They both do things the other never could. Take, as an example, Silent Hill. How much plot is there to Silent Hill 2? Maybe an hour and a half of cutscenes, tops? The story relies on being bulked up by the gameplay, by the threat of monsters and the creepy events such as seeing Pyramid Head behind those bars. True, it's a brilliant story, well done and well thought out, but how do you compare that to a similar horror story? Say, something by Simon Clark? There is simply so much more to even a small book's story. Doesn't make it better, of course. Just makes it different.

[randomwab]

Everyone should go read the Divine Comedy and then play Dante's Inferno.

Or better yet, read Stephen King's The Mist and try to pick which games stole which ideas from that novella. There's a ton.

[Trent]

The point with literature is that once you are reading, it is entirely up to your own imagination to determine a basis of how things look. The story is already written, that is true, however the environment and the world are entirely dependable on your imagination.

In video games there is no need for this imagination to take place as everything is already plotted out. If you want to make similarities, I would say that the story of a video game is the process that occurs before the story is usually read. So if you wish, you can say that while you are playing a video game such as Silent Hill 2, you are drafting your story as you go. Instead of traditionally reading a story from a book, you are "writing" your story as you move along. Each fate of your character makes a different story.

This process of reading and "writing" are two different areas, as such they really cannot be compared.

[Carnivol]

In video games there is no need for this imagination to take place as everything is already plotted out.

That is only partly true. The use of abstract graphic (such as the 8-bit and 16-bit console generations' use of abstract pixel art, often accompanied by beautiful concept art) and the lack of voice acting often challenges the player's imagination to "fill in the blanks."

Modern games' struggle for mainstream media acceptance has made realistic graphics and voice acting a "must," which of course has severely limited the requirements for the player to use his/her imagination. You could in one way say that many types of games are moving away from being interactive books to becoming Hollywood flicks... Anyway, there still are abstracts, but they are becoming rare. One of the elements I've become very fond of is the used of low quality speech samples in NDS games. The quality of the speech samples makes the voices less "pre-defined" and you get this almost retro "radio play" like feeling from the way the voices sound. The pitch is off, the bitrate distorts things a bit, etc... and you really only get a vague idea of what a character may sound like (Call it an evolution of the speech "dots" found in games, such as Terranigma, if you like. Where many characters have different types of "dot" sounds that play with the printing of each letter to indicate what type of voice the character has.)


But, yes, games are a weird mixture of reading/writing. This will sound like a cliché sample, but Super Metroid does an excellent job at delivering a full story, that can be retold, without ever really interrupting the game in any way. All text you really ever get delivered (besides "you got ___" messages) is the intro. Metroid Prime series, although more cutscene heavy (and the third one even including speech), does a good job at continuing this odd use of player driven exploration and narrative.

[Skunky]

I think the bottom line is that currently, a good story simply isn't a requirement for a successful game. So developers don't often have it at the top of their priorities...

If you look at the majority of the most highly rated, biggest selling titles, the game's story is often somewhat irrelevant. It's very rare that a game is praised by reviewers and sells millions and millions of units because it has a brilliant, intriguing story. Most of the time, it's a bit of a 'bonus' if the story is good. There are plenty of games with good stories that are commercial flops.
The most highly rated, biggest selling games are more likely to be ones that allow people to join up with 30 of their friends and shoot each other in the head, with stunning, realistic violence (not that there's anything wrong with that) or bounce around in rainbow colors and rescue the Princess...

Even a game like Uncharted 2 (which I LOVED) dosn't really have what could be called a 'deep or meaningful' story. If a novelization of the game was written, it would be a bit far fetched and silly. But its incredible presentation made it very enjoyable. Like many Hollywood blockbusters, you can switch off your brain and enjoy the ride.
A book dosn't work that way. You can't switch off your brain and read a book. Staring at text without comprehending it is what dumb kids do at school.
Sadly, thinking, digesting and comprehending information and using one's imagination, is out of fashion.

Welcome to dumbed down Planet Earth...

[Darkmoon]

I think it's important to keep in mind that, in the vast majority of cases, a game would not work as a book nor a book as a game. Even movies to games, much more closely related in terms of media, tends to end in failure. Silent Hill 2 would make a terrible novel, for example. Even Resident Evil's much easier plot didn't translate terribly well to book form.

[Vector]

I think it's important to keep in mind that, in the vast majority of cases, a game would not work as a book nor a book as a game. Even movies to games, much more closely related in terms of media, tends to end in failure. Silent Hill 2 would make a terrible novel, for example. Even Resident Evil's much easier plot didn't translate terribly well to book form.

Exactly. How many books have turned into failures as films? My God, the list must be long. The moral of the story here is(PUN), just because a story works extremely well in one form of media, does not mean it will work well at all another form. However, where there is money to be made, transitions and adaptations will always happen.

[Trent]

How many books have turned into failures as films? My God, the list must be long.

Actually, the book to film transition is usually not that bad. There are several well made films based on novels. However, the problems often occur when doing a game to film transition. I cannot say why, but perhaps it is a bit tricky to work out a solid script for a film based on gameplay (and specific story) from a video game. This tends to lead to independent stories for the films, which is very often not liked by fans of the games.

The moral of the story here is(PUN), just because a story works extremely well in one form of media, does not mean it will work well at all another form.

Not really the case as I stated earlier. There are many well made films based on good novels. A good example of that is Lord of The Rings.

[Carnivol]

I cannot say why, but perhaps it is a bit tricky to work out a solid script for a film based on gameplay (and specific story) from a video game.

Despite how shitty some of his movies are, listening to Uwe Boll talk about the subject is rather interesting and pretty much gives you the idea of how tricky it actually can be to make an adaption of various games. Some of the interviews with Boll are actually so interesting that they really makes one wonder how on earth that man can be the same made who made some of the abominations that he's responsible for. (Of course, this post doesn't come without the mandatory mention of how great Postal actually was. So at least they weren't all bad!)

[Becky's Butt]

Not really the case as I stated earlier. There are many well made films based on good novels. A good example of that is Lord of The Rings.

Not the best example, friend. I like the LOTR books and movies just fine but there's quite a dislike for the films by some fans.

I think To Kill A Mockingbird and Jurassic Park are better examples.\

Yes I really do love TKAM. It's just so flawless in both book and film form.

And while the Jurassic Park film was changed in many ways (Speilberg-ified if you will) it still was a great adaptation and many of the changes were necessary.

[Mr_Zombie]

Actually, the book to film transition is usually not that bad.

The main problem with book -> film transition is that it's usually really hard to compress the main story, backstory all sub-plots and narration from the book into a 1.5-2 hour film. In the end it usually results in a much simpler story that is only focused on showing main plot points of the storyline. Of course, there are directors that can say "screw the original storyline" and instead of faithfully copying the story from book, they create their own storyline with the same concept, but much better suited for film (for example Kubrick's "The Shining" - there are lots of differences between the movie and King's novel, even when it comes to the main storyline).

[Vector]

Actually, the book to film transition is usually not that bad. There are several well made films based on novels. However, the problems often occur when doing a game to film transition. I cannot say why, but perhaps it is a bit tricky to work out a solid script for a film based on gameplay (and specific story) from a video game. This tends to lead to independent stories for the films, which is very often not liked by fans of the games.

What I meant was, the people who read the books and then the books are made into movies, tend to be often disappointed by the films. The best example I can think of myself is Jarhead. The book itself was fantastic, and the movie was pretty good too, but there were just so many interesting tidbits left out that the movie did not do the book justice. I'm sure this happens a lot with many other films.

Not really the case as I stated earlier. There are many well made films based on good novels. A good example of that is Lord of The Rings.

I never said that it never worked out. I said, and I quote, "just because a story works extremely well in one form of media, does not mean it will work well at all another form." Can it work out? Yeah, but the point I was trying to make is that a great book does not always equate to a great movie.

[Trent]

I never said that it never worked out. I said, and I quote, "just because a story works extremely well in one form of media, does not mean it will work well at all another form." Can it work out? Yeah, but the point I was trying to make is that a great book does not always equate to a great movie.

I must have misread your line, in that case I agree with what you mean.

I agree with the points made here. It is indeed a hard task to put stories from novels on the screen. It is true that it's a big challenge for directors to be able to transform an entire novel into a film, actually this is seldom possible. There are simply too many details that can be covered in the span of a film (as mentioned earlier).

The interesting thing here however is that films based on novels tend to attract viewers in their own way. Whilst these films don't necessarily cover the entire back stories of the novels, they seem to develop their own way of attraction that increases popularity among viewers (of course this is not always the case, there are always those films that simply do not work out at all). Perhaps the reason for these films' popularity and often mainstream is the creators' ability to use the main aspects of the novels and build on these in a specific manner to attract viewers (?).

We might be trailing off but I think we are getting on an interesting subject here when it comes to showcasing and transformation of literature.

[Member_of_STARS]

I have my own little theory on why videogame movies suck in general.

Videogames have yet to prove themselves as a credible artform in the eyes of talented film-folks (writers, actors, directors, producers, et cetera). In essence, there are more Michael Crichton fans than there are (example) of Kojimas, in the movie industry.

I dont think its impossible to make a fantastic videogame movie, as weve seen its not impossible to make one from a novel, short story, comic book. It just requires someone with talent, who actually tries to understand the source material and its appeal (strong points).

Unfortunately, after reading the early draft of Kane and Lynch movie script, its more and more evident that the people who make video-game movies do it for money and money alone. They dont seem to be motivated to attempt to bring the videogame itsself to the screen, with its characters, story and appeal intact. Instead, standard Hollywood "tactics" are used. Create a controversial character, put someone next to them who would create some contrast and friction, use the same names as in videogames. If all else fails, sell with sex.