SCEH fires the Playstation inventor.

[Arlumit]

I read today's news - because of the unsat. selling amount in PS3 (compared to Wii and Xbox360) ...

... Playstation inventor is being fouled off from japan's SCEH (Sony)

had u ever read that news?

[Carnivol]

Yeah, the news about Ken Kutaragi losing his current position have been around for a little bit now.

It doesn't entirely come as a surprise, and Sony really needs a "front figure" of sorts, as the closest they have now is Kaz, and I don't think he's anywhere as good as a frontfigure as the alternatives their competitors have.

[chrism3784]

I will be getting a PS3, but I am going to wait till the price comes down.

[Umon Daisuke]

What they need is a business man to run things, and Kutaragi was an engineer gone mad. He went overboard with the PS3 R&D budget, cost the console GTA exclusivity (even if it timed like the PS2), and didn't have a good rapport with management. Going back to 99, the PS2's R&D was botched to a point where they didn't have enough resources to develop proper libraries for developers.

Then came his period as president of the electronics sector, when it suffered its worst losses in the history of the company.

Kaz Hirai is a businessman with a proven track record, so he'll fill in nicely. A "mascot" like Larry Hryb is another matter.. and I don't think Sony needs one (they didn't have one during their most successful years).

[Carnivol]

He went overboard with the PS3 R&D budget, cost the console GTA exclusivity

Wrong, GTA4 was never meant to be any form for exclusive, Rockstar (and even MS and Sony too) nicely pointed out that the reason for GTA4 going multi was because of the current size of the next-gen market and how doing a PS3 exclusive simple wouldn't be good economicly (Well, Sony said they couldn't "house" such a big title yet)

Kaz Hirai is a businessman with a proven track record, so he'll fill in nicely. A "mascot" like Larry Hryb is another matter.. and I don't think Sony needs one (they didn't have one during their most successful years).

Kaz is a businessman, yes, but not of the kind that should be representing an entire company. He's the type of guy that comes into a store and says "Hi, would you like to carry our products?", putting that guy infront only creates "Riiiiiiiiidge Racer" and "$599,-". Quotes people will only remember as something negative and give a negative effect.

Take the Wii and compare it to the PS3;

-Revolution's final name is revealed to be Wii, suddenly, over night, the entire world knows that Nintendo is making a new system, with a name that can be laughed at for five min, but a small price to pay for the best marketing of a product, ever. Even the older grandparent generation who've got kids who once played NES, and grandchildren who now plays PS2/GC/Xbox knew about the system.
On top of that, Nintendo is a company that in general have had a good reputation and most people had their first home videogame experiences through one of their products or have one of their products and enjoyed it.

-PS3, a system being described as the most powerful system, yet, all media attention and info spreading was pretty much based on inconsistencies and stupid quotes from their E3 presentation.
Sony being a wide brand that people have mixed opinions about thanks to various problems throughout the years (such as how they're the company that's countless times tried to force new format standards onto people through their products).
This being followed up by problem after problem, it's just not good at all for them. And they need to tear everything down and start from scratch, more or less.



Sony needs someone who's capable of actually telling people what the heck a game is, what makes a good game good and why someone should buy it, and that with actually knowing what the heck he/she is saying and not just using a bunch of words/techniques you learn about in a marketting school book.
They need someone who plays games, understands gameplay mechanics and who's capable of somewhat create/be-part-of a community.

Unfortunately, the only person Sony has that fits in there at the moment is Mr.God of War designer, who's already done a good job at pointing out mistakes the mother company has made ;p

If you're gonna sell a system, and not just games, you can't have things the way they are at the office I currently work at, where the marketing guys constantly bothers everyone else during their work hours, asking all sorts of common knowledge gaming related questions.

[Dot50Cal]

You raise some good points but Id like to see you get along with Umon instead of coming at him guns blazing. Simply put: Theres a better way to do counter-points (and hell, all I see is you dis-agreeing with him! Where are you posts echoing him?)

such as how they're the company that's countless times tried to force new format standards onto people through their products

Utter horse shit. You act as if advancing the medium of storage is a bad thing. Ill admit UMD was a failure from the start but Betacam was superior to VHS, just as Blu-ray is to HD-DVD.

[Carnivol]

Utter horse shit. You act as if advancing the medium of storage is a bad thing. Ill admit UMD was a failure from the start but Betacam was superior to VHS, just as Blu-ray is to HD-DVD.

BetaMax, superior quality to VHS, but Sony's stubbornness and price for the format made it die a slow and painful death (And only live on in the form of camcorders and the odd school stock of shitty 70s and 80s documentaries that would haunt kids all the way up 'til the mid-90s)
MiniDisc, let's not ever forget about that one! A format that was superior in many ways, but it for some reason had to live life in the shadows, 'til the second half of the 90s when it tried to take the place of portable CD players and most of all only ended up being a competition to sony's own walkman brand.
UMD, in pretty much every possible way the MD v2.0, and not really much of a success either. The fact that UMD movies now are pretty much tossed at you like rocks if you speak of the PSP in most stores shows how welcome the format was as a multimedia solution. Also the amount of UMD AUDIO discs we've seen shows what a success it's been? And what happened to the UMD recorders for the everyday home user, and the other UMD compatible players/devices ?

In fact, most people prefer extensions of technology they're already familiar with.

The problem is that Sony for some reason doesn't let consumer decide when they need more space or a new format.
It's not Sony who should decide how much space I want to have on a storage medium and when I need that space. I am the one who should feel a need to make the yes or no decision of "do I need more space?".

It's like that stupid quote of theirs about how the "Next generation" starts when they say so.

[Dot50Cal]

It's not Sony who should decide how much space I want to have on a storage medium and when I need that space. I am the one who should feel a need to make the yes or no decision of "do I need more space?".

This makes no sense to me. If you dont feel the need for 50GB BDRW then dont buy one, Meanwhile Ill gladly buy one as I can use them quite well thank you very much.

Its the companies that they do business with. Those companies obviously felt it was time to an HD media to take off so they can serve customers with HD content thats disc based. How on earth can you say that BD isnt justified when its the only way to get great quality HD?

Your argument sounds like that one where idiots complain about how arrogant Sony is. "Oh noze, sony didnt let me in on what they were planning! So arrogant! Did they ask me if I need 50GB? NO! Then fuck them!!!11". You act as if Sony is forcing you to buy BD over DVD. Correct me if Im wrong but you can still buy DVD if you are satisfied with 4-9GB.

[Umon Daisuke]

Wrong, GTA4 was never meant to be any form for exclusive, Rockstar (and even MS and Sony too) nicely pointed out that the reason for GTA4 going multi was because of the current size of the next-gen market and how doing a PS3 exclusive simple wouldn't be good economicly (Well, Sony said they couldn't "house" such a big title yet)

That was the official line, yes, but far from the truth. Leaks via Newsweek from Rockstar (and Ubi Soft as well with AC) that they in fact approached SCEA to continue the tradition of making the future GTA games timed exclusive. However, such deals needed to get approval from SCEI, and Kutaragi didn't get his priorities staright. The rest is history. Here's one story out of many from various outlets:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155357

The rest of your long post goes into a circle-type description of a PR effort, NOT an exec who runs a company. Hirai has never been part of the marketing/PR force, despite handling keynotes at E3. Whereas both Nintendo and MS's frontmen are in fact their own VP's of marketing (Fills Aime and Moore). If you meet an average marketing exec, he/she is typically charismatic and works to sell you an idea/product. Fills Aime in particular had a rather impressive resume prior to his career at Nintendo.

An managerial type knows nothing but to deal with numbers and lays out plans. They have no real PR skills. That's where Kaz and Kutaragi, and even Harrison are (though Harrison is certainly changing his tone now). Jaffe is a game developer, so he wouldn't be fit for the job either. But so what if they said some stupid quotes? Ever heard of Hiroshi Yamauchi? None of the Sony guys had anything on him. Moore had his share of stupid comments too.. but in any case, why should I care? I'm simply going to enjoy a console for what it offers, not what an exec or two said. heh.

We can go on and on, but the real problem with the PS3 has been the price. The media later on followed with a barrage of rumours that most of which were proven to be utter bs. Anything from Cell yields (which was in fact better than Xenon's) and DRM on discs, loss of 2-3 "exclusives" despite the fact that overall, that term is virtually meaningless.

Simply put, If the console cost $400 at most, there wouldn't be an issue at all.

such as how they're the company that's countless times tried to force new format standards onto people through their products

Countless times? There were two total: Betamax, and mini CD.. both of which they screwed up as they tried to make them proprietery. They co-developed CD's and DVD's and headed a lot of the PR efforts there. Likewise with BD, which isn't really theirs, and was developed by them and Matsushita (among others).

EDIT: Why even mention UMD when it was really made to a be a proprietery PSP medium? It's not like they made or planned to market standalone UMD players.

[Carnivol]

That was the official line, yes, but far from the truth. Leaks via Newsweek from Rockstar (and Ubi Soft as well with AC) that they in fact approached SCEA to continue the tradition of making the future GTA games timed exclusive. However, such deals needed to get approval from SCEI, and Kutaragi didn't get his priorities staright. The rest is history. Here's one story out of many from various outlets:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155357

The articles on these subjects were nothing but speculation and full of "thinkable possibilities" and infact most of them will probably just mention the same as the one you just chain linked to;

We've learned that Take-Two and Rockstar Games were interested in continuing their longtime relationship with Sony, in which they premiered their Grand Theft Auto games on PlayStation platforms exclusively for 6-12 months before bringing them to other systems.

SCEA executives were no more eager to address these charges head-on. "I don't want to get into confidential discussions with another company," says Tretton, "but there was interest on Take-Two's part to bring Grand Theft Auto onto Xbox platforms. We wouldn't encourage them to do that. The interest came from them."

See that? No mention of GTA4 being PS3 exclusive at any point. Also, as you may have noticed, the first game that used part of the technology used for GTA4 is an Xbox 360 title.

The rest of your long post goes into a circle-type description of a PR effort, NOT an exec who runs a company. Hirai has never been part of the marketing/PR force, despite handling keynotes at E3. Whereas both Nintendo and MS's frontmen are in fact their own VP's of marketing (Fills Aime and Moore). If you meet an average marketing exec, he/she is typically charismatic and works to sell you an idea/product. Fills Aime in particular had a rather impressive resume prior to his career at Nintendo.

An managerial type knows nothing but to deal with numbers and lays out plans. They have no real PR skills. That's where Kaz and Kutaragi, and even Harrison are (though Harrison is certainly changing his tone now). Jaffe is a game developer, so he wouldn't be fit for the job either. But so what if they said some stupid quotes? Ever heard of Hiroshi Yamauchi? None of the Sony guys had anything on him.

Sony decided to put Hirai in public, even though he's far from being a public front figure, and most certainly is no Shigeru Miyamoto, who probably needs no introduction
Hiroshi is the reason why Nintendo became what it is today. The reason you don't hear too much shit about him is because there simply isn't anything recent to pick on, and it's not as if someone tried putting him infront as a front figure for everyone to look at and identify themselves with or anything.

Moore had his share of stupid comments too.. but in any case, why should I care? I'm simply going to enjoy a console for what it offers, not what an exec or two said. heh.

The problem there is that it's "not just you".
There are millions of potential sales out there, and a huge majority of them only knows your product through what they see from an add in their local newspaper. And when they go on to ask about that product, seeking information, all they will find is a bunch of negative shit.
Microsoft has the advantage of having a well established brand such as "Windows" to surf on and an infinite supply of money. They pretty much don't need to worry about anything, as they can actually afford to make a full failure of a system.

We can go on and on, but the real problem with the PS3 has been the price. The media later on followed with a barrage of rumours that most of which were proven to be utter bs. Anything from Cell yields (which was in fact better than Xenon's) and DRM on discs, loss of 2-3 "exclusives" despite the fact that overall, that term is virtually meaningless.

Simply put, If the console cost $400 at most, there wouldn't be an issue at all.

At $400, the company would've had to take a bigger economical hit, maybe the increased sales could've made up for it?
But then again, at $400, they would've most likely had to strip out the BluRay or evt. waited 'til the technology became cheaper, both of which would've been bad in a business point of view.

Countless times? There were two total: Betamax, and mini CD.. both of which they screwed up as they tried to make them proprietery. They co-developed CD's and DVD's and headed a lot of the PR efforts there. Likewise with BD, which isn't really theirs, and was developed by them and Matsushita (among others).

EDIT: Why even mention UMD when it was really made to a be a proprietery PSP medium? It's not like they made or planned to market standalone UMD players.

"We have already proposed UMD disc media as an open standard for everyone," he says. "The game profile will be unique for PlayStation Portable but movie and music should be a common application for everyone."

This makes no sense to me. If you dont feel the need for 50GB BDRW then dont buy one, Meanwhile Ill gladly buy one as I can use them quite well thank you very much.

You pay for a "next gen" format, when the next gen obviously is not here yet, and not only because Sony didn't say so.

Do any PS3 titles use the entire BR disc yet?
No.

Is a Hi-Def TV the current standard in people's homes?
No.


Sure, you can say they want to "grow with the market", but when you try to look at past and current, you'll see DVD, a format that came onto the market in 96/97, how many knew what a DVD was or owned a DVD player pre-2000 (PS2 launch).
BluRay is 2003/2004, but even today, the format has not really become "finalized", with a 1.1 profile set for late 2007, early 2008 release, and most likely a huge majority of stand alone players will not support this, 'cause of both hardware limitations and lack of firmware upgrades.
Not even the Hi-Def market is really "finished/finalized", with most flat screens manufacturers almost monthly having a new model with visual improvements available. Compared to non-flatscreen sets, where the visual quality hasn't had too many steps of improvement at all over the past decade, only the handling of inputs from various sources + upgrades to the user friendlyness.

[Umon Daisuke]

Newsweek, speculation... right. Funny stuff, considering the scope and wording of the article and the fact that they're real journalists (not a so-called journalism in the games sector). You honestly think that Tretton would've pointed the finger at his superior? Rockstar's engine was a multiplatform multi-core engine from the get go, confirmed.


AND you still don't get my point, or hopefully you're just ignoring it to have the last word. They need REAL management, not an engineer in a manager's suit (refer to Kutaragi's track record that I mentioned) and Hirai is just that. Want a public figure, you get a real PR guy like Fills Aime (Miyamoto is an icon; he's a legend on his own that needs no introduction). This couldn't be simpler. You keep going back describing what PR and a portion of marketing is. Press (online, newspaper etc) = PR = Public Relations. Come on.

Of course we don't hear anything about Yamauchi right now, that's a point I clearly made for a direct comparison to what he was when he brought the company to its knees with the N64. If it weren't for Pokemon and the handheld business, Nintendo would've been in too deep in the 90's. Suffice it to say, the GC was his last legacy (he retired right before the GC's launch), and Iwata's is the DS and Wii.

The $400 price point was a hypothetical matter that I mentioned. Again, price is the system's main problem. Period. How incredibly naive of you to think that MS doesn't need to worry about making a failure. They rally investors time after time when they bled billions on the original Xbox ($5 billion in 4 years), and have been in the red since 1999 (the games division). Neither practice is "good business"; want good business, look at Nintendo.

Since you love going back to the BD drive (not BR), did you miss the bit about Sony not being the only BDA member? Using the PS3 as a trojan horse was a mistake, but don't ever think that Sony is alone in pushing HD formats. Hollywood IS, and the ongoing format war should clue you in. The spec you're referring to BD Java.. that's not quite the same as having a format on the market. I do believe that both formats (HD-DVD and BD) were rushed given their launch hitches last year, so I'm not going to defend either of them. They're here though, and you'd be hard pressed to criticize them if you see a movie in HD the go back to SD.

Sure games don't really need them, but less compression and uncompressed PCM audio in games doesn't quite hurt. There is a collossal gap between DD and linear PCM soundtracks.

HD is growing at a faster rate on a yearly basis, so I'm not sure where you've been. The higher resolution in 360 and PS3 games, regardless of the medium (T5 DR is 555MB at 1080p). MS took the first step, and Sony took it further at the expense of the PS3's market position. If you personally don't feel it's necessary, do enjoy your SD resolutions.. they're not going anywhere.

For your reference, consumer electronics see new models released every year, not month. CRT sets are mere evolutions of the first TV's invented, so of course there wouldn't be any major improvements in the past decade aside from 1080i. However, various improvements were made for several decades , and rather significant ones (inputs/filtering etc etc.). That's what's happening with the current LCD and Plasma technology. The HD standards are there, so it's only a matter of polishing them, and even then, aside from 1080p and HDMI, there haven't been any real major ones for a while.

It doesn't take much to realize that you love to argue for the sake of arguing and digging holes to have the last word. I suggest heading to GameFaqs, you'll feel right at home.

Regardless, you need to have the last word, so go ahead. Pick on something I said and get it over with.

[Arlumit]

I will be getting a PS3, but I am going to wait till the price comes down.

when will the price drop?

[CaptainDinobot]

when will the price drop?

Probably not fast enough for me to be getting one anytime soon.

[Arlumit]

so, playstation 3 is the final edition/version of playstation