Obama is Trying to Take Away Even More of Our Freedom

[Wrathborne]

Has there ever been any case where a "good guy (civilian) with gun" stops "bad guy with gun" from killing?

-_-. If you're really asking that question then I feel sorry for you.

[Ununoctium]

-_-. If you're really asking that question then I feel sorry for you.

Don't, the socialist media over there have been "brainwashing" (not insulting Anders or any other EUrophile) people in the EU for many decades now, telling them that guns are the ultimate evil in the universe and that only the government elite should have access to them. Just as they've been saying that the EU is democratic and that Barosso and his goons aren't working to create a European superstate.

[Anders]

-_-. If you're really asking that question then I feel sorry for you.

I'm sorry, but a random avoided murder in USA is hardly news worthy in other countries, and I have just never heard a "sunshine" story where the armed good guy saves the day. Then again I don't care enough to google it, so feel free to ignore my polite, curious question, without any political agenda. (I don't give a shit.)

Don't, the socialist media over there have been "brainwashing" (not insulting Anders or any other EUrophile) people in the EU for many decades now, telling them that guns are the ultimate evil in the universe and that only the government elite should have access to them. Just as they've been saying that the EU is democratic and that Barosso and his goons aren't working to create a European superstate.

There's no brainwashing required, Norway and Norwegians don't give squat about whether Americans are allowed to be armed or not. I just asked a question out of curiosity. Sure, we have tight gun laws in Norway, and if anybody wanted to change that I'm sure several things would turn up in the media covering both sides, but it seems we don't give a shit about guns. I can't recall that there has ever been a serious political discussion about it at all.

Considering your previous posts I don't really feel insulted, though it's obvious that an insult was intended, regardless of what you say (like those who say "no pun intended" after a really bad pun). They way your word yourself, like those super right wing big word politicians which have their 15 minutes of fame every now and then over some retarded case of theirs, and then disappears, makes it hard to take you seriously. Just a word of advice.

Oh, and the EU can fuck themselves. That's the only sensible thing you've said this far.

(No, I'm not hatin'. Just talking. OK, maybe I'm hating a little.)

[Wrathborne]

I'm sorry, but a random avoided murder in USA is hardly news worthy in other countries, and I have just never heard a "sunshine" story where the armed good guy saves the day. Then again I don't care enough to google it, so feel free to ignore my polite, curious question, without any political agenda. (I don't give a shit.)

So now that everyone's shared their opinions on the matter, can we get back to the topic?O.o

[Anders]

Missed this part earlier...

1. It happens all the time. Has there ever been any case where a "good guy (civilian) without a gun" stops someone like Anders Brevik?
2. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

1. Maybe, maybe not. Whether the police should be armed or not is a whole other discussion. Then again, the security guard at the youth camp was a policeman, but he was there as a hired civlian. So OK, whether police officers and security guards should be armed is a whole other discussion. I hope you don't suggest that all the kids there should have been armed.

2. Congratulations! (Though I didn't check it, it's just nice to provide some actual facts to back up any claim for those who are interested to take the matter further.)

can we get back to the topic?O.o

Which part, the brainwashing?

[Anders]

I see we're back on topic already!

[Ununoctium]

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Who was that aimed at?

[Anders]

Who was that aimed at?

I believe that was me

[Enetirnel]

Enough with the needling and insults, get back onto topic.

And Wrathborne, I've removed that useless and insulting post. That was uncalled for to direct it towards Anders curiosity.

If people are going to legitimately debate or discuss the topic properly then that's fine but I'm only saying this once, if it continues (particularly the insults) then I feel that people will be getting some infractions and/or both infractions and this topic will end up locked to put an end to it.

[Scream]

Your forgetting the main issue here - if they ban guns/ammo, how will we stock up on our zombie-max before the inevitable occurs? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQWb-5nblx4

[Mr. Spencer]

Enough with the needling and insults, get back onto topic.

And Wrathborne, I've removed that useless and insulting post. That was uncalled for to direct it towards Anders curiosity.

If people are going to legitimately debate or discuss the topic properly then that's fine but I'm only saying this once, if it continues (particularly the insults) then I feel that people will be getting some infractions and/or both infractions and this topic will end up locked to put an end to it.

Can I just say, that rendition of Jill in your avatar looks almost exactly like you.

[Enetirnel]

Can I just say, that rendition of Jill in your avatar looks almost exactly like you.

Ah, well Smiley wanted to do some sets of avatars on here so we're currently doing the Chris & Jill ones.

But as for that, I don't exactly know what to say Spencer.

And as for the topic, I honestly can't exactly say anything that hasn't already been covered OR that I haven't seen or heard in comments from family - I personally don't really have an issue with guns, but considering the laws here I'd be perfectly fine to still have the gun restrictions but at the very least allow something such as a stun gun for self defense... that way I don't need to carry around a heavily metal studded handbag and the like if needed.

Other than, there's a lot of private shooting ranges too and it's not like they couldn't be soundproofed to avoid public disruption among other things.

But overall, typical political bullshit (considering I'm in Australia - this is the sort of stupid excuses I tend to see or hear here).

[Darkmoon]

Didn't you already use that gigantic wall of text in our PM conversation? The difference is that the electoral college is democratic and is a system that myself and just about everyone else in my country supports. It prevents the people in a state with a lot of people like New York having infinitely more power than a state with only a few people like North Dakota. The EUSSR superstate isn't democratic at all and merely has Barosso and his unelected goons consolidating power for their socialist agenda.

Yes, I've posted it two or three times, because as amusing as this all is I don't like repeating myself. And this is the first time you've replied! Of course, you're logic is badly flawed - when a Union based on trade (not a single nation, no matter how many times you say it) does something without a public vote but it's chosen by people put there by the public, it's a socialist state, but when America essentially has it's President chosen by a hand full of people who can ignore the public? Greatest democracy on Earth.

And as for the topic, I honestly can't exactly say anything that hasn't already been covered OR that I haven't seen or heard in comments from family - I personally don't really have an issue with guns, but considering the laws here I'd be perfectly fine to still have the gun restrictions but at the very least allow something such as a stun gun for self defense... that way I don't need to carry around a heavily metal studded handbag and the like if needed.

Other than, there's a lot of private shooting ranges too and it's not like they couldn't be soundproofed to avoid public disruption among other things.

But overall, typical political bullshit (considering I'm in Australia - this is the sort of stupid excuses I tend to see or hear here).

I like stun guns. Again, I think you should be required to take a short course to be able to legally able to carry one (mostly to make sure you aren't the kinda asshole to zap doorhandles as people walk through and such) but they're, in the most part, a short ranged non-lethal weapon. Certainly preferable to most people carrying a loaded gun.

[Ununoctium]

Yes, I've posted it two or three times, because as amusing as this all is I don't like repeating myself. And this is the first time you've replied! Of course, you're logic is badly flawed - when a Union based on trade (not a single nation, no matter how many times you say it) does something without a public vote but it's chosen by people put there by the public, it's a socialist state, but when America essentially has it's President chosen by a hand full of people who can ignore the public? Greatest democracy on Earth.

You mean except for the fact that the electoral college is required to vote for the candidate the people from their constituency support in 48 of the 50 states. And in the other two they aren't required by law to, but they always do anyway. Again you're comparing apples to oranges, you can't compare the electoral college to the European Commission. And I begin to think you are trolling, since anyone who hasn't lived under a rock for the past 10 years knows just how undemocratic the EUSSR has been and how they have ignored the people at every single possible chance they got and when they were forced by the Southern Irish Constitution to hold a referendum, they ignored it and forced them to vote again until they "got it right" and voted for the Lisbon Treaty.

I like stun guns. Again, I think you should be required to take a short course to be able to legally able to carry one (mostly to make sure you aren't the kinda asshole to zap doorhandles as people walk through and such) but they're, in the most part, a short ranged non-lethal weapon. Certainly preferable to most people carrying a loaded gun.

Because there is such a major door handle zapping problem in the UK, isn't there Darkmoon?

[Darkmoon]

You mean except for the fact that the electoral college is required to vote for the candidate the people from their constituency support in 48 of the 50 states. And in the other two they aren't required by law to, but they always do anyway. Again you're comparing apples to oranges, you can't compare the electoral college to the European Commission. And I begin to think you are trolling, since anyone who hasn't lived under a rock for the past 10 years knows just how undemocratic the EUSSR has been and how they have ignored the people at every single possible chance they got and when they were forced by the Southern Irish Constitution to hold a referendum, they ignored it and forced them to vote again until they "got it right" and voted for the Lisbon Treaty.

...did...did you actually just accuse me of trolling you? Oh, I think I'm gonna laugh my way out of my skin at some point. This is too damned funny.

BUT! To the facts. You're the one insisting that A) the whole of Europe is now a single country and B) insist it's controlled by an undemocratic process. Now, assuming that supposition A) is correct, what would Europe most easily compare to? The US, for each Europeon member State taking the place of the, well, various States. Hence why I am.

Also? You don't actually know how your Electoral College System works, do you? Oh dear. Well, have a Wiki - and yes, I know, it's a wiki but if you look at the sources you'll find it's also correct. But to summarise - Only about half the states have laws punish a Faithless Elector, that is someone who votes differently to the way the majority of people do. And that's to punish them - there vote still stands. And how many times has it happened? 158. Although only 85 of those are deliberately voting against the public - two of the other abstain, and the rest? The guy died before they could vote.

Because there is such a major door handle zapping problem in the UK, isn't there Darkmoon?

Would people use tazers inappropriately? Yeah. Just as they do with guns. Worse, a lot of people think tazers can't kill, and are even more likely to screw about with them, thinking they can't do lasting harm. So I think people should at least take a half day course, get taught the dangers and risks and how to shoot and maintain them. Along with criminal background checks and such. For actual firearms, I think it should require quite a lot of training, time and money to get them - the capacity to kill so easily and at a distance is a privilege, not a right, and one that should be earned as far as I'm concerned.

And no, we don't have a problem with it - tazers, stun guns and such are all illegal in the UK. Same as, well, pretty much every other weapon. I disagree with that law, myself. I think mace, stun guns and such should be legal.