United States of America 1776-2011, the NDAA bill passes...

[Wrathborne]

Obama signed the bill into law today and the entire USA is now listed as a battleground and indefinite suspension facilities will be set up.

The USA is no longer a country, but a police state underneath the dictator known as 'congress'.

I think its time to learn a new language.

[Karui]

Is this real...are you just messing with us?

[Wrathborne]

Is this real...are you just messing with us?

Dude, I am so seriously not messing around.

One from wired magazine:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/senate-military-detention/

One from political animal, that tries to soften the blow:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/what_the_dnaa_does034154.php

George Carlin warned us of this a long time ago.

[Gambit]

While everyone is distracted with their alcohol and New Year partying, Obama signs the NDAA. What a way to launch 2012. Sneaky lil' fella

[Smiley]

On the battlefield you never think about what's next.

[Karui]

I'm not sure what to say about this....what exactly would make someone pass a bill like that? :-/

[Wrathborne]

Power. This bill gives them more power.

[News Bot]

The U.S. political system has been stagnant and leading up to this for decades. Unless sweeping changes are made to Congress and the U.S. political system in general, it will only get worse.

This is primarily what happens when your only choices are right-wing lunatics and left-wing morons. Also, once again, Obama has been easily manipulated by Congress (and more specifically; Republicans). Someone covered the whole thing already on another forum, so rather than regurgitate, here it is:

TL;DR The President's opponents played the electorate like a fiddle and will get away with it because people don't seem to realize they've been tricked into being angry at the wrong person.
He signed it because if he didn't, defense spending including benefits to veterans and their families would not have been authorized. The sections of NDAA that many people here seem to have a problem with are sections that were added into the document by primarily Republican legislators and which the President adamantly opposes but was powerless to stop.

I'll repeat that: the parts of this bill that many people here hate were included against the President's wishes and in a way that he is powerless to stop. The only way he could have stopped these sections from being included would have been to try to veto the bill in its entirety, a move that would have been both political suicide as well as being futile, as Congress would simply have overridden him. He is explicit in his opposition to exactly the parts of the bill everyone here hates, going so far as to detail exactly which sections he opposes and why.

You'll notice that the bill also restricts his ability to close Guantanamo Bay; this isn't coincidence. These sections are openly hostile to the President's stated mandate - they are effectively a giant 'fuck you' to the President, as well as a nasty way of eroding the President's support with his own base. Observe:

Draft legislation that is almost guaranteed to piss of the President but more importantly piss of his base.

Attach said legislation to another piece of larger, more important legislation like, say, the Defense Spending budget for the entire year so that any attempt to dislodge the offensive legislation will result in a political shitstorm, as well as place the larger legislation in jeopardy.
Once attached, begin a PR campaign that highlights the offending legislation and brings it to the attention of as many media outlets as possible - not just the traditional media, but alternative media outlets as well (Fox news, MSNBC, Media Matters, Huff-Po, Infowars, etc.)

Here's where it gets tricky: Simultaneously, speak to both your party's base and the opposition's. To your base, argue that the legislation is necessary to 'Keep America safe' and that the President, by opposing it, is clearly soft of terrorism and endangering the military by trying to strip the legislation out.

At the same time, sit back and watch your opponent's liberal supporters tear into the offending legislation as being dangerous, anti-democratic, and a threat to civil liberties. You know they will; that's what they care about most. You've designed legislation that will make them froth at the mouth. You don't even have to keep flogging the message; one look at the legislation will be enough to convince most people that it is anathema to everything they hold dear. Because it is.
Pass the 'parent' legislation. Doing so forces the President to sign it or attempt to veto it.

Since the legislation in question just so happens to be the military's operating budget, a veto is out of the question. The President must sign the bill, you get the legislation you wanted, but you also practically guarantee that your opponent's base will be furious at him for passing a bill they see as evil. Even if he tries to explain in detail why he had to sign it and what he hates about it, it won't matter; ignorance of the American political process, coupled with an almost militant indifference to subtle explanations will almost ensure that most people will only remember that the President passed a bill they hate.

Profit. you get the legislation you want, while the President has to contend with a furious base that feels he betrayed them - even though he agrees with their position but simply lacked the legislative tools to stop this from happening. It's a classic piece of misdirection that needs only two things to work: A lack of principles (or a partisan ideology that is willing to say anything - do anything - to win), and an electorate that is easy to fool.

This is pretty basic political maneuvering and the biggest problem is that it almost always works because most people either don't know or don't care how their political system actually functions. The President was saddled with a lose-lose situation where he either seriously harmed American defense policy (political suicide), or passed offensive legislation knowing that it would cost him political capital.

To all of you here lamenting that you ever voted for this 'corporate shill', congratulations: you are the result the Republicans were hoping for. They get the law they want, they get the weakened Presidential candidate they want. And many of you just don't seem to see that. You don't have to like your country's two-party system, but it pays to be able to understand it so that you can recognize when it's being used like this.

[alexdz]

So that's the bill that says the government can arrest and torture anyone they want, right? Damn, I feel bad for you guys, it's like living in a dictatorship without a real a dictator.

[Mr. Spencer]

Deus Ex is actually happening!

[Pikminister]

The U.S. political system has been stagnant and leading up to this for decades. Unless sweeping changes are made to Congress and the U.S. political system in general, it will only get worse.

This is primarily what happens when your only choices are right-wing lunatics and left-wing morons. Also, once again, Obama has been easily manipulated by Congress (and more specifically; Republicans). Someone covered the whole thing already on another forum, so rather than regurgitate, here it is:

Yes, The U.S. House of Representatives indeed passed the National Defense Authorization Act in a 283-to-136 vote. 190 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted for; 43 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted against it. In the Senate, the majority voted to pass it too. You can see that both parties measure up to their reputations. Republicans are once more the batshit hawkish lunatics and Democrats are once again the spineless morons.

Yet few out there seem to make the connection. Fuck, they won't even consider blaming their congressman or congresswoman or the Senators for what happened. Y'know, the ones that allowed that shit bill into existence and to be able to sit at the POTUS desk? The same bill that turns the US into a "battleground" or a place where a "dictatorship" could take place? That one.

It sure didn't help that the American media practically ignored that bill and gave it little coverage. Thus why so many either don't know about it or just think it happened last night. Weird. Here you have a bill that would allow for the lifelong imprisonment of American citizens on US soil, by military force, without right to a trial, access to an attorney, and so forth, passed by CONGRESS & the SENATE and sitting on the POTUS desk for days and the media isn't talking about it. They're too busy giving coverage to Kim Kardashian's ass.

BTW, if you're thinking this won't happen if Obama is removed, you're kidding yourself:



And before you say it...there is no chance that Ron Paul will get elected. Since he doesn't even get along with Jews and blacks. This while Romney has said that the government needs the capacity to use something like the NDAA.

Anyway, have a Happy New Year 2012. Lets hope the Mayans were right and the whole world "enlightens" itself somehow.

TL;DR The President's opponents played the electorate like a fiddle and will get away with it because people don't seem to realize they've been tricked into being angry at the wrong person.

He signed it because if he didn't, defense spending including benefits to veterans and their families would not have been authorized. The sections of NDAA that many people here seem to have a problem with are sections that were added into the document by primarily Republican legislators and which the President adamantly opposes but was powerless to stop.

I'll repeat that: the parts of this bill that many people here hate were included against the President's wishes and in a way that he is powerless to stop. The only way he could have stopped these sections from being included would have been to try to veto the bill in its entirety, a move that would have been both political suicide as well as being futile, as Congress would simply have overridden him. He is explicit in his opposition to exactly the parts of the bill everyone here hates, going so far as to detail exactly which sections he opposes and why.

You'll notice that the bill also restricts his ability to close Guantanamo Bay; this isn't coincidence. These sections are openly hostile to the President's stated mandate - they are effectively a giant 'fuck you' to the President, as well as a nasty way of eroding the President's support with his own base. Observe:

Draft legislation that is almost guaranteed to piss of the President but more importantly piss of his base.

Attach said legislation to another piece of larger, more important legislation like, say, the Defense Spending budget for the entire year so that any attempt to dislodge the offensive legislation will result in a political shitstorm, as well as place the larger legislation in jeopardy.
Once attached, begin a PR campaign that highlights the offending legislation and brings it to the attention of as many media outlets as possible - not just the traditional media, but alternative media outlets as well (Fox news, MSNBC, Media Matters, Huff-Po, Infowars, etc.)

Here's where it gets tricky: Simultaneously, speak to both your party's base and the opposition's. To your base, argue that the legislation is necessary to 'Keep America safe' and that the President, by opposing it, is clearly soft of terrorism and endangering the military by trying to strip the legislation out.

At the same time, sit back and watch your opponent's liberal supporters tear into the offending legislation as being dangerous, anti-democratic, and a threat to civil liberties. You know they will; that's what they care about most. You've designed legislation that will make them froth at the mouth. You don't even have to keep flogging the message; one look at the legislation will be enough to convince most people that it is anathema to everything they hold dear. Because it is.
Pass the 'parent' legislation. Doing so forces the President to sign it or attempt to veto it.

Since the legislation in question just so happens to be the military's operating budget, a veto is out of the question. The President must sign the bill, you get the legislation you wanted, but you also practically guarantee that your opponent's base will be furious at him for passing a bill they see as evil. Even if he tries to explain in detail why he had to sign it and what he hates about it, it won't matter; ignorance of the American political process, coupled with an almost militant indifference to subtle explanations will almost ensure that most people will only remember that the President passed a bill they hate.

Profit. you get the legislation you want, while the President has to contend with a furious base that feels he betrayed them - even though he agrees with their position but simply lacked the legislative tools to stop this from happening. It's a classic piece of misdirection that needs only two things to work: A lack of principles (or a partisan ideology that is willing to say anything - do anything - to win), and an electorate that is easy to fool.

This is pretty basic political maneuvering and the biggest problem is that it almost always works because most people either don't know or don't care how their political system actually functions. The President was saddled with a lose-lose situation where he either seriously harmed American defense policy (political suicide), or passed offensive legislation knowing that it would cost him political capital.

To all of you here lamenting that you ever voted for this 'corporate shill', congratulations: you are the result the Republicans were hoping for. They get the law they want, they get the weakened Presidential candidate they want. And many of you just don't seem to see that. You don't have to like your country's two-party system, but it pays to be able to understand it so that you can recognize when it's being used like this.

[Trent]

George Orwell is rolling in his grave.

[Wrathborne]

Goerge Orwell already has created the ultimate told you so's... 'Animal Farm' and '1984'. :/

[Alexia_Ashford]

Deus Ex is actually happening!

CORPORATIONS HAVE MORE POWER THAN THE GOVERNMENT!

[Wrathborne]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/06/new-bill-known-as-enemy-expatriation-act-would-allow-government-to-strip-citizenship-without-conviction/

------

And now things get really scary here: A new bill is being considered called the Expatriation Act, that gives the government the right to strip Americans of their citizenship, without trial. I have never hated my own government so much.