Info regarding the unreleased RE 3.5 (updated)

[News Bot]

I've always wondered what was the plot for this game.

You said Spencer didn't appear in that game. There was no Ada appearently. All we know is that HCF attacked the castle with some kind of early version of Uroboros, right ?
Also, I always thought that this game was a big step toward the fall of Umbrella, but it seems that it's not really the case afterall. I mean, Spencer was not going to be the final boss and all.

So my questions are : Aside from Leon, were there other returning characters in that game ? And, to be frank, is the final version of BIO4 that much of a departure from the mythology as how it appeared back then ?

Because I'm starting to think that the plot wasn't going to be that important or, should I say, interesting in the castle version. With the few information we have now, I've got the impression that the story was running in circles...

Spencer didn't appear, but the game would've revealed much more about him, the Progenitor Virus, the true goal of the t-Virus Project, etc. Need to confirm if Ada didn't.

Leon was going to eradicate the source of the Progenitor Virus. It was a stepping stone to the company's demise, but most of the games are. It certainly wasn't an end-game as people have speculated. Every game's plot is important, which is a big part of the appeal for me. Seemingly small details have a huge impact. The final version of BIO4 isn't a departure from the mythology in general, it's just a time skip. A lot happened in the six years and Umbrella was basically under siege from S.T.A.R.S., the US Government, its rival company and potentially other nations and organizations, but BIO4 glossed over all of that. The final plot is boring even if you look at it on its own and not as a BIO title. Subsequent games salvaged it but are not as exciting as earlier proposed games.

[MarvieT]

I agree with everything you said except from the fact Spencer was not going to appear. Even if it was said he was not present by CAPCOM staff, there might be the possibility they meant by that he was only absent in one of the beta versions, not all of them.

[News Bot]

I agree with everything you said except from the fact Spencer was not going to appear. Even if it was said he was not present by CAPCOM staff, there might be the possibility they meant by that he was only absent in one of the beta versions, not all of them.

The scenario writer Noboru Sugimura already used him in the BIOHAZARD that became Devil May Cry. He did not want to use him again in an active role right away for the sake of crafting a completely different story.

[MarvieT]

There is indications that not only Sparda from DMC but Lorenzo from the Haunting Ground game also borrowed his appearence too. I agree they were looking for a different story in each version, but it seems hard to believe in a game supposed to reveal stuff related to the origins of the progenitor virus would not feature Spencer as a main antagonist.

[News Bot]

There is indications that not only Sparda from DMC but Lorenzo from the Haunting Ground game also borrowed his appearence too. I agree they were looking for a different story in each version, but it seems hard to believe in a game supposed to reveal stuff related to the origins of the progenitor virus would not feature Spencer as a main antagonist.

Sparda was not based on Spencer. The only connection is that they were the father to Dante and Vergil in their respective versions but they are otherwise very different characters. Sparda's human design was actually just an older Dante from a time skip at the end of the BIO scenario. Lorenzo is completely unrelated to Spencer and Demento/Haunting Ground in general has absolutely nothing to do with BIOHAZARD with the exception of Sugimura writing its base scenario draft and recycling the girl/dog characters.

You could argue that the concept of "Azoth" and Lorenzo's quest for immortality is actually inspired by Spencer and Progenitor, but the concepts are so similar and Sugimura is dead, so there'll never be confirmation..

[MarvieT]

What do you mean by them being the father to Dante in their respective versions? Well indeed some say Leon's earlier design looked a lot like Dante from DMC. I do, however think Sparda looks very similar to a younger Spencer, specially because, if he really wanted to become "God", it would make sense if he became younger in the game, just like James Marcus or Lorenzo. I don't know, you already agreed with me that the girl and dog concept was borrowed from BIOHAZARD in Demento, so why wouldn't they borrow Spencer's design for Lorenzo as well, specially duo to the strong resemblance both Lorenzo and Spencer share? Besides, not only the backgrounds from Haunting Ground were remanent from BIOHAZARD, but also as you said, the concept of Azoth and his quest are pretty much similar as well. I guess even with Sugimura dead, if we actually had the final beta, it could definitelly answers a lot of our questions regarding this matter.

[News Bot]

Spencer was Dante's father initially. Then it was Sparda when it became Devil May Cry, but aside from the father aspect the two characters have no connection. Dante's design was not inspired by Leon. Spencer never became younger at any point. Sparda's human design was recycled from when Dante killed Spencer and took over Umbrella.

Why would they borrow Spencer's design? "Old man" isn't exactly a unique idea. The backgrounds in Haunting Ground have no connection to BIOHAZARD at all and once again, the Azoth/Progenitor parallels could just be mere coincidence as their effects have been done many times in many different stories. There's no such thing as a "final beta", that's actually quite contradictory, as betas by definition are never final. On top of that, while the scenario was complete, not all of it was implemented before the game was scrapped.

[Grem]

The final plot is boring even if you look at it on its own and not as a BIO title.

Oh, of course, I'm not going to argue with that.

I was just saying that the final version sped things up. And maybe for the better.

When I hear these information about the Castle version it doesn't sound as exciting as I would have imagined. Honestly, after Code Veronica I wanted to see Spencer or the fall of Umbrella, not another rip-off of Code Veronica with another random executive from Umbrella as a villain. But hey, that's just me ;-)

[News Bot]

Oh, of course, I'm not going to argue with that.

I was just saying that the final version sped things up. And maybe for the better.

When I hear these information about the Castle version it doesn't sound as exciting as I would have imagined. Honestly, after Code Veronica I wanted to see Spencer or the fall of Umbrella, not another rip-off of Code Veronica with another random executive from Umbrella as a villain. But hey, that's just me ;-)

Speeding things up was pretty good, but the quality of its own story and then the bad timing of it (Sugimura's death, Kawamura leaving) left subsequent stories pretty lackluster because the new writers had different views on the series. The Castle version was intended to be the last in the "Progenitor" trilogy (CV, 0, 4) just as BIO1-3 were the "Raccoon City" trilogy. The story itself was extremely exciting and high-stakes, it just wasn't an end-game. A relative of Spencer was a villain at one point for a different game and that story was also brilliant. It's better to imagine the series as a puzzle with each game being just a single piece-- they're all vital to the bigger picture in some way.

Umbrella's demise was originally handled a lot better. I like the approach to it they went with in UC etc also, but it was originally a lot more pro-active rather than the company just stagnating.

[Rombie]

Umbrella's demise was originally handled a lot better. I like the approach to it they went with in UC etc also, but it was originally a lot more pro-active rather than the company just stagnating.

I think that's key as to why so many longer time fans were pissed at the 'death of Umbrella' - because it seemed like after the company got away with so much shady dealings it really went down without a fight. And that's also counter to much realistic worldwide global megacompanies who will hemorrhage millions of dollars to try and stay afloat even through dodgy practices. So it just still feels like a lot of missed narrative opportunities of staff subordination and dodgy black market backhanding that games like Dead Aim, some of the stuff with Albert Wesker, and parts of UC only lightly touched the surface of.

[MarvieT]

I've heard Leon was always supposed to be the main character in Resident Evil , so it makes sense if Dante borrowed an early desig from Leon, I got a friend who confirmed me that in the first ever bete for BIO, Leon was infected with some kinda disease and his hair turned white, though I can't confirm if this is true or not, I think it kinda makes sense. However it's just like you said, after Sugimura died it's really hard to confirm wheter this is true or not.

I meant by final beta the last one made which can probrably have earlier files on the disc with the previous versions. I even read in a site Demento's background had elements from the beta, I'm gonna send you the link, first I gotta find it. You know, it's not only because Lorenzo is an old guy. He have many similar traits to Spencer. Both walking in whellchairs, searching to be God and eternal life. The azoth from Fiona could be reference from the immunity Sherry gained from the g-virus, if she was indeed going to appear in the beta. Even if this is not the case, you already agreed the girl and dog concept was borrowed, even Hewie appear as an easter egg in the final Resident Evil 4, it's clear Resident Evil 4, Devil May Cry and Haunting Ground had their developments made borrowing elements from each other. Anyway, I really do hope any of the betas come to light one day, I just love this series.

[MarvieT]

OH another thing I would like to make clear, even being unrelated to this thread's topic, is about the Silent Hill Trade Demo. When I mentioned this game people said it is identical to the normal demo, however I beg to differ. There is no download link for the demo anywhere on the internet, at least I could not find it anywhere. So it's kinda hard to say this demo is the same as the normal demo without proving. Of course I can't prove it as well, but the thing is, this demo is nowhere to be found, so if someone knows any lead regarding this please let me know. Btw I'm not the only one who thinks this demo has beta content. Some other people searching for it already stated it has indeed material not present in the final game. Those links are example of topics some people created looking for the Trade-Demo:

link 1 https://www.assemblergames.com/forum...lent+hill+beta

link 2 http://forums.hidden-palace.org/view...2ca68990d31a76

[Burt Mustin]

I've heard Leon was always supposed to be the main character in Resident Evil , so it makes sense if Dante borrowed an early desig from Leon, I got a friend who confirmed me that in the first ever bete for BIO, Leon was infected with some kinda disease and his hair turned white, though I can't confirm if this is true or not, I think it kinda makes sense. However it's just like you said, after Sugimura died it's really hard to confirm wheter this is true or not.

NS's death has no remote bearing on whether or not this is false-- he didn't come on board until somewhere later-stage of 1.5's development. The character's name was originally 'Grant Bitman' before evolving into known Leon.

There exists no concept art of Leon in any form in the RE1 95' period, his creator (Kamiya) molded him based on the direction 1.5 was headed (cop in a police station), and somewhat as a contrast to a character like RE1 Chris.

A rumor can arise from anyone, but if their hit-rate is as poor as your friends, I would be skeptical at best from now on.

[News Bot]

I've heard Leon was always supposed to be the main character in Resident Evil , so it makes sense if Dante borrowed an early desig from Leon, I got a friend who confirmed me that in the first ever bete for BIO, Leon was infected with some kinda disease and his hair turned white, though I can't confirm if this is true or not, I think it kinda makes sense. However it's just like you said, after Sugimura died it's really hard to confirm wheter this is true or not.

I meant by final beta the last one made which can probrably have earlier files on the disc with the previous versions. I even read in a site Demento's background had elements from the beta, I'm gonna send you the link, first I gotta find it. You know, it's not only because Lorenzo is an old guy. He have many similar traits to Spencer. Both walking in whellchairs, searching to be God and eternal life. The azoth from Fiona could be reference from the immunity Sherry gained from the g-virus, if she was indeed going to appear in the beta. Even if this is not the case, you already agreed the girl and dog concept was borrowed, even Hewie appear as an easter egg in the final Resident Evil 4, it's clear Resident Evil 4, Devil May Cry and Haunting Ground had their developments made borrowing elements from each other. Anyway, I really do hope any of the betas come to light one day, I just love this series.

The BIOHAZARD which later became Devil May Cry changed protagonists three times:
Leon Kennedy -> Tony Redgrave -> Dante Spencer

Leon was scrapped almost immediately because him being Spencer's son was deemed too contrived. His hair wasn't going to turn white. Tony and Dante's designs were brand new and unique with no influence from Leon.

Haunting Ground has no connection with BIO4 apart from Noboru Sugimura writing its base scenario draft and reusing the girl/dog protagonists from the BIO4 Castle version. Hewie's appearance in BIO4 is just an easter egg, as both games came out around the same time. It's no different from the Street Fighter and Dino Crisis posters in Gun Survivor.

Sherry was never planned to appear in any version of BIO4.