Help with plot error

[TheBatMan]

Can anyone please help me and give a good explanation as to why James Marcus was killed in 1988? I know Zero, UC and Archives all say 1988 but all the evidence points to 1978! Apologies if this has already been discussed but does anyone have an opinion???

[JcFFx]

Ask the other way around: What "evidence" points to 1978?

The investigator's report tells you he disappeared 20 years ago.

Although from what I heard it was a typo and other versions say 10 years ago.

[TheBatMan]

1. The NTSC version of Zero, the Investigator's Report file says Marcus dissappeared 20 years ago as apposed to ten.

2. If Marcus survived to 1988 why is he not even mentioned in WR2? Zero was well into pre-production whilst remake was being developed. If all his research is stolen why do we not hear a peep from him for ten years? Surely him just being fired from Umbrella wouldn't stop him getting his revenge? It doesn't seem to stop anyone else.

3. Annette Birkin in RE2 says William created the T-Virus. This would make much more sense if Marcus had been killed in 1978 as he hadn't even officially announced the discovery of the virus yet. If Marcus still lived and Birkin was claiming responsibilty for its creation, surely he would have had something to say on the matter. And if Marcus was dead, Birkin could easily claim responsibilty and would explain why he and Wesker are suddenly transferred to Arklay to study the virus as head researchers.

4.Why was the training facility suddenly shut down in 1978? We are given no indication, unless it was because the managing director had just been killed because of his 'mis-use' of company trainees.

5. Marcus is assassinated in a seemingly fully operational lab that had apparantly been shut down ten years earlier.

6. If he was removed from power in 1978 yet kept alive. Why do they kill him? Marcus can't have done anything significant from 78-88 as we don't hear anything from him, so why assassinate him at all and more significantly, why wait ten years?

7. According to his diary, Marcus hated Spencer with a passion and hinted at moving gainst him, yet he never does why? Perhaps because he was killed before he got the chance?

8.Marcus planned to officially announce the creation of T at the next director's meeting sometime in 1978, yet he never does?

9. After his death in 88, Birkin announces that he will take over Marcus' research but he has already been studying the virus for the past ten years! And when he says this you have to assume he means the actual properties of the virus and not the leech experiements as Birkin has no interest in them.

[Colvin]

According to the official JP timeline, Marcus was killed in 1988. It says he continued his "t" research alone, after URC is closed down.

1. The NTSC version of Zero, the Investigator's Report file says Marcus dissappeared 20 years ago as apposed to ten.

Mistranslation.

2. If Marcus survived to 1988 why is he not even mentioned in WR2? Zero was well into pre-production whilst remake was being developed. If all his research is stolen why do we not hear a peep from him for ten years? Surely him just being fired from Umbrella wouldn't stop him getting his revenge? It doesn't seem to stop anyone else.

Mention of Marcus' death would ruin Spencer's career, along with Wesker and Birkin.

3. Annette Birkin in RE2 says William created the T-Virus. This would make much more sense if Marcus had been killed in 1978 as he hadn't even officially announced the discovery of the virus yet. If Marcus still lived and Birkin was claiming responsibilty for its creation, surely he would have had something to say on the matter. And if Marcus was dead, Birkin could easily claim responsibilty and would explain why he and Wesker are suddenly transferred to Arklay to study the virus as head researchers.

Timeline also says Birkin continued Marcus' research.

4.Why was the training facility suddenly shut down in 1978? We are given no indication, unless it was because the managing director had just been killed because of his 'mis-use' of company trainees.

Supposedly to coverup the trainee deaths.

5. Marcus is assassinated in a seemingly fully operational lab that had apparantly been shut down ten years earlier.

Good point, but the lab could have been in good shape until Marcus died. And then it went to shit in the next ten.

6. If he was removed from power in 1978 yet kept alive. Why do they kill him? Marcus can't have done anything significant from 78-88 as we don't hear anything from him, so why assassinate him at all and more significantly, why wait ten years?

Wesker and Birkin were at a stonewall in their research. They need Marcus' research to help things along.

7. According to his diary, Marcus hated Spencer with a passion and hinted at moving gainst him, yet he never does why? Perhaps because he was killed before he got the chance?

In the Japanese files, his hate for Spencer is more mild.

8.Marcus planned to officially announce the creation of T at the next director's meeting sometime in 1978, yet he never does?

That entry doesn't even appear in the Japanese version. I think they added it to Eng ver. to make him sound like Birkin.

9. After his death in 88, Birkin announces that he will take over Marcus' research but he has already been studying the virus for the past ten years! And when he says this you have to assume he means the actual properties of the virus and not the leech experiements as Birkin has no interest in them.

Translation:

Birkin:
I will continue your "t" research. Ha. Ha. Ha.

[TheBatMan]

You mean the official Japanese timeline? Where can i find that?

Wesker's Report 2 is not a public document, so no one's career was in jeprody.

Can u give me a reason then why he was killed in 1988?

[Colvin]

You mean the official Japanese timeline? Where can i find that?

The Umbrella Chronicles website.

Wesker's Report 2 is not a public document, so no one's career was in jeprody.

Fair enough. I don't have a definitive answer for this. However, if you murdered and stole and apparently claimed that someone else's research was your own, would you go around advertising that person? Umbrella was trying to sweep Marcus under the rug, so to speak.

Can u give me a reason then why he was killed in 1988?

I just told you. Anything Japanese, ie. guides, flowcharts, catalyst, website says 1988.

If you need more proof, Marcus says, "10 years ago, Spencer had me assassinated." I think the man knows when he was killed. Besides, the 20 year entry just says he disappeared. If he stayed at URC, which he did, he would likely disappear since it was closed.

[News Bot]

Wesker's Report 2 is not a public document, so no one's career was in jeprody.

It was a public document in that it was sent to someone who could have easily torn Wesker's career to pieces. Nobody besides Spencer, Wesker and Birkin (and I suppose Billy and Rebecca) knew about Marcus' murder. It's a secret to those three. A secret isn't a secret if you write it down.

[TheBatMan]

Well in that case surely wesker saying his ultimate goal was to dicover spencer's true motives is just as dangerous but he was happy to write that down? And surely he would only sent it to Ada after he left Umbrella so he wouldn't care what was in it.

I know the canon is 1988 i just struggle to understand a reasoning why they leave it until then and why they actually kill him.

[Colvin]

That's understandable. I would have said '78 myself if it weren't for the evidence. Also, I think Wesker sent that report to Ada in preparation for her infiltration of the mansion. Hence, it ends in 1995, after Wesker transferred to Umbrella's information service. He wouldn't have spent much time at the mansion after that, except on a consulting basis. Birkin too, less frequently visited.

[Rombie]

As soon as I saw this topic I knew this would be what it was about.

As noted, both the European language versions and Japanese version of the game also have the file corrected. This created mass debate on GameFAQ's at the time Zero was released, however as the US version released first and the other versions second... including a fixed English version... clearly Capcom intended it to be 1988 which is why it was changed.

[Stars1356]

Marcus was killed the same year as Edward Ashford died.

[Neptune]

Marcus was killed the same year as Edward Ashford died.

No, thats not true, yr referring to the letter in UC from Spencer to shareholders. Its a lie, and also covers up spencer involvement of the assissination.

its 1988 is his death date.

The biohaze timeline (of where u got yr evidence) is wrong in that respect. Whilst most accept 78 wud make sense, 88 is the correct date as document numerous time, also in the archives timeline.

coinsidently, tyrant programme begins soon after Birkin has acquired marcus's research and wen he was killed.
Theres no link, but as Colvin sed, perhaps research was at a stand still, and no doubt in Spencers paranoia concluded it was time for marcus to go.

[TheBatMan]

No, thats not true, yr referring to the letter in UC from Spencer to shareholders. Its a lie, and also covers up spencer involvement of the assissination.

its 1988 is his death date.

The biohaze timeline (of where u got yr evidence) is wrong in that respect. Whilst most accept 78 wud make sense, 88 is the correct date as document numerous time, also in the archives timeline.

coinsidently, tyrant programme begins soon after Birkin has acquired marcus's research and wen he was killed.
Theres no link, but as Colvin sed, perhaps research was at a stand still, and no doubt in Spencers paranoia concluded it was time for marcus to go.

Yeah i know, i wrote it ;). I am changing it for next years update and i was just fishing around for some opinions. The best explanation i could think of and what i have written is that 1988 was the year the tyrant was created, arguably the pinncale of creation from the T-Virus. With the discovery and potential of the G-Virus the same year, Spencer decides its the perfect time to seize full control of Umbrella and with T-Virus research at a standstill he has no further use for Marcus and with Ashford already dead Marcus is the one guy that stands in his way of ultimate control.

[Neptune]

Yeah i know, i wrote it ;). I am changing it for next years update and i was just fishing around for some opinions. The best explanation i could think of and what i have written is that 1988 was the year the tyrant was created, arguably the pinncale of creation from the T-Virus. With the discovery and potential of the G-Virus the same year, Spencer decides its the perfect time to seize full control of Umbrella and with T-Virus research at a standstill he has no further use for Marcus and with Ashford already dead Marcus is the one guy that stands in his way of ultimate control.

lol, there u go!

I wud agree with that hypothesis, if Spencer predicted the G-Virus wud be their pinnacle weapon, the next stage of progress is with birkins underground labs. Marcus represents the old way of things, he needed removing now for sole control.

Remember between 78 and 88, the T-Virus was very much in its infancy, how many researcehers were workin on it? Dozen, tops, it wud make sense to keep Marcus of whom is a great scientist alive in case he discovers other secrets.

[Project Omega]

Here are a few questions to consider :

• When was the T-Virus distributed to other Umbrella Research Facilities around the world?

• When was the Nemesis Program started?

(I'm working strictly from memory here, so please excuse any inconsistencies. I'm at work and have limited access to my files).

Alexander's Memo in Code Veronica mentions that "there was great competition in the field of T-virus research" which implies that the T-Virus is being worked on at many Umbrella based research facilities. Now, depending on when this memo was written says a lot of the T-Virus research that was going on. If the memo was written before the Ashford twins were born, then it would have been written in the time between the mid-to-late 60's. The rest of the memo implies that Alexander was still working on Project Veronica (therefore no discovery of the intelligence inheritance gene) and was going to have the Antarctica facility built, further strengthening the time frame mentioned above.

In Marcus' Diary 1, we are given a rough time frame for the development of Marcus' T-Virus. It was created, at the very least, 2 years after the discovery of the Progenitor Virus. This doesn't seem right since if the Projenitor Virus was located in the early 1960's, then that would have meant that the T-Virus would have been discovered sometime between 1962 and 1965 (plus or minus a few years). Thus, if the T-Virus was disclosed and sent out for other research teams to work with, this would fit nicely into with Alexander's Memo.

That being said, if the T-Virus was released in the mid-1960's for research to be done, then what could have Marcus squeezed out of the T-Virus further that would warrant the assassination of Marcus to only acquire his research? To keep him quiet? Take away his shares or control of the company? By 1978, his T-Virus would have been about 10 years old. They should have been able to create a Tyrant some time around then because...

...In the 1980's the Nemesis Program was started to try and control the level of intelligence present in BOWs. It's not clear when the program was initially started or if the research was even originally aimed at Tyrant control, what we do know is that it started sometime in the early-to-mid 80's and was started by Umbrella Europe.

If BOW research was coming along in the early 80's, then Marcus would have had to have been assassinated in 1978 to have his research used by Birkin to further the knowledge available on the T-Virus to stimulate the boom in BOW to warrant Umbrella Europe's concern over intelligence control measures through genetically engineered organisms. Naturally, by the time UE thought to use a parasite as a form of brain control, they have already exhausted or grew tired of all other approaches.

Alexia had her T-Veronica Virus made by 1983, 5 years after the 1978 assassination of Marcus' and no doubt 5 years after Birkin released some of Marcus' notes as his own regarding the T-Virus. Birkin had to one up Alexia to prove he was still "the best" and with Marcus' information in hand, he was going through test subjects at an accelerated pace to learn what he can and all aspects of the virus. It wasn't until after 1983, after Alexia's "death" that Birkin slowed down since he felt his position as top researcher was no longer threatened.

That's my 0.02. Devil's Advocate, FTW :3