The Central "Jill Valentine" Discussion Topic

[Alexia_Ashford]

Everyone, let's stay on topic and keep it civil. Rakkoon, this thread is about Jill Valentine, not Resident Evil 5.

I was personally impressed with Jill's character in Resi 5, I found it wrapped up her story very well and it added depth to her and Chris' relationship. I really liked her BSAA outfit as well, it reminded me of the old S.T.A.R.S uniform.

[Sina]

Besides, to turn your argument on it's head, I think her catsuit in RE5 was far more conspicuous. Which would have turned the most heads on a street? I don't think I have to answer that one for you. At least, I hope not.

Right, but the difference being Jill didn't wear a catsuit when she was walking around the streets of her hometown, now did she? The whole point of the RE3 outfit was to show Jill in her civilian clothing. Compairing that to an outfit Wesker probably had custom made for her so she could act as his ninja servant is kind of a daft argument.

This sina person has douchebag troll written all over them. Mini skirt and tubetop is prostitute clothing? You need to get out more as I have friends that have those kind of clothing in their wardrobe and its far from prostitute clothing.

I can't believe people are trying to defend the reasoning behind RE3 Jill's choice of outfit when facing down an entire city full of zombies. STILL. You're acting like I'm the only person on the planet who thought Jill's outfit was retarded. It's obvious you're defending it because you love Jill, but for no other reasonable reason. I know they were going for sex appeal when designing her and you'll use that as an argument, but there's a difference between sexy and skanky, and you can pull off sexy and plausible, but they didn't even try. She's not even wearing a fucking bra!

But anyway, I wasn't trying to get a rise out of people, I was merely pointing out that what they did with Jill in RE5 made her an alot more interesting character. I like Jill now, but thought she was kind of generic before.

Rakkoon:

Seriously, you give Shinji Mikami way too much credit. He directed the original Resident Evil, a game NOTORIOUS for the worst written dialogue in the history of mankind. Granted, that was acceptable for 1996, but it was clear he knows how to design gameplay, but as far as how to tell a story goes he's not special.

Resident Evil 2, seen by most as the best game in the series, was NOT directed by Shinji Mikami, and it's clear the dialogue and storytelling is way improved.

Resident Evil 3 and Resident Evil: code veronica. Same thing. Not Shinji Mikami's direction.

Shinji Mikami came back SIX YEARS LATER and took the reigns of Resident Evil: Remake, and the dialogue and story were matured abit, but that couldn't've been too difficult. And then he decided he was tired of the RE story arc and started afresh with RE4.

Giving credit where credit's due, as far as game design, level design, enemy design, boss encounter design RE4 was fantastic. It was highly regarded as one of the best games of the decade as far as playability, and the over the shoulder view was something many games copied in the following years after its release, including RE5. RE4 was an amazing game, gameplay wise, and noone can dispute that, and I find it sad that people try to just cause Rakkoon is a whiny crybaby. As far as story development and dialogue goes, RE4 was sorely lacking.

So if you wanna look at the overall series, other than starting it, Shinji Mikami doesn't have as much to do with the success of the series as you seem to think. Mikami cutting off the story right at its climax did alot of damage to the series, like killing off Umbrella in a few sentences. The games since RE4, including RE5, have done their best to bridge the giant gap left by RE4. That being said, the stories in Umbrella chronicles did their own damage aswell. Red Queen? TALOS? *Sigh*

Overall, RE5 did a great job mending the story. I'm sorry you're so madly in love and obsessed with the pure Jill valentine that her new hair colour blinded you from what made RE5 a good game.

[ValentineKnight]

um yeah well really none of the Re characters outfits fit the situation and if you think Jill's RE3 outfit was skanky I'd love to know what you think of Clarie and Ada's Re2 outfits and Ada's outfit in RE4 as she was showing more skin than Jill in that game.

[Jill's Boob]

I thought Jill was handled fairly well in RE5. I've always liked her (2nd fave character) but I don't see where some of her "fanatical" fans act as if she is this fully developed character. Sure, she's made the most appearances out of all characters (in RE games & other media), but all RE heroes are pretty much empty shells. This series has never been particularly good at character development.

Her hair color was never a problem for me. It is satisfactorily explained in game, and it certainly is not game-shattering (like it appears to be to some people).

I fully expect to see a Jill game in the future as DLC, akin to "Separate Ways." It is set up perfectly when Jill contacts Chris about Wesker's injections. Jill is winded, and she talks about escaping. So I think after Chris and Sheva abandon Jill in the Monarch room, Jill makes her way to the rendezvous with Josh. And there are some levels for Mercs that aren't from the main game, so maybe those will be used.

One thing that interests me is just how close Chris & Jill are...it has always been pretty ambiguous in these games, and then becomes the sole driving force in this game. I mean, Chris's whole motivation was to reunite with Jill. And then they do...and it is subpar. They did a lot of staring into each other's eyes and not saying much. Then at the end, we don't even get to see (at the very least) a real hug.

The two worked together for a long time, and Jill's "death" haunted Chris. He kept looking for her, and when he did find her, he didn't want to let her go again. She even had to shake him out of it, as he was willing to "let millions of people die" just to stay with her. Haha.

Anyway, I would have liked to see some epilogue files or something. Do Chris & Jill go back to being "partners" (the word means a couple of things)? Do they retire? What happens?

[Vector]

This post contains RE5 spoilers. If you don't wanna know, don't read it. I'm not gonna spoiler tag every other sentence.

um yeah well really none of the Re characters outfits fit the situation and if you think Jill's RE3 outfit was skanky I'd love to know what you think of Clarie and Ada's Re2 outfits and Ada's outfit in RE4 as she was showing more skin than Jill in that game.

No shit. They all look the way they do and wear what they wear for sex appeal. Selling copies. Selling sex. That's it. I was playing Mercenaries with Rosetta last night, playing as Battle Suit Jill(or Slut-Suit Jill) and staring at her ass the whole time. I thought out loud, "Why does her ass have to be so perfect? Why does she have such an awesome rack and amazing cleavage?" And Rosetta answered me, "sex appeal." And that's all there is to it.

It's the same thing for Ada in RE4. Sex appeal.
Although, Ada and Claire in RE2 weren't nearly as bad as some of the other slutty outfits this series has flaunted.

I thought Jill was handled fairly well in RE5.

I have to disagree here. There's no doubting that she's a main character of this series, and in RE5 she was nothing more than a shitty plot device and an advertising tool. The trailers said "Jill's dead." OMFG, she's dead?! NO WAI!! I guarantee some people bought this game just because Jill was in it(won't name names here *cough*)...and that's what Capcom wanted. And so, yes, she was indeed in the game. When Wesker pulled back that hood, the fan in me geeked out, and I'm pretty sure I might've said "JILL!" out loud...but you'll have to ask my partner. While she was indeed in the game, she was in it for all of what, 11 minutes? 7 possible minutes of the battle with Wesker(although she spends most of her time bouncing around in other rooms when I fight her), plus maybe 3-4 minutes of cutscene time? It made me a little sad. Sheva replaced her as Chris's partner, and Jill's main character status was replaced by her status as a plot device.

Sure, she's made the most appearances out of all characters (in RE games & other media), but all RE heroes are pretty much empty shells. This series has never been particularly good at character development.

Exactly. And that's upsetting. No character development, ever. I would've loved to see more emotion from Chris when he found out Jill was alive, and then again when he saved her. But no...nothing. I'll have more on that later in this post.

Her hair color was never a problem for me. It is satisfactorily explained in game, and it certainly is not game-shattering (like it appears to be to some people).

The argument and outrage over her hair color is retarded and unnecessary. End of story. As you said, it was explained well, and isn't really that much of a big deal at all. She was blonde and pale. So freakin' what.

I fully expect to see a Jill game in the future as DLC, akin to "Separate Ways." It is set up perfectly when Jill contacts Chris about Wesker's injections. Jill is winded, and she talks about escaping. So I think after Chris and Sheva abandon Jill in the Monarch room, Jill makes her way to the rendezvous with Josh. And there are some levels for Mercs that aren't from the main game, so maybe those will be used.

Interesting...that would definitely be cool. I'd like to see something starring either Jill or hell, even Josh Stone. I was pleasantly surprised with Josh. He was a pretty cool ancillary character, and he clearly has an emotional connection with Sheva...it would be nice to maybe play as him.

One thing that interests me is just how close Chris & Jill are...it has always been pretty ambiguous in these games, and then becomes the sole driving force in this game. I mean, Chris's whole motivation was to reunite with Jill. And then they do...and it is subpar. They did a lot of staring into each other's eyes and not saying much. Then at the end, we don't even get to see (at the very least) a real hug.

The two worked together for a long time, and Jill's "death" haunted Chris. He kept looking for her, and when he did find her, he didn't want to let her go again. She even had to shake him out of it, as he was willing to "let millions of people die" just to stay with her. Haha.

This part really pissed me off. Two long years of thinking she was dead, then finding out she might be alive, then finding out she IS alive but trying to kick your ass, and then SAVING her and having her 'back,' and he didn't even fucking hug her. I was talking to my TV at the point when he was holding her up, looking down at her. "Kiss her, Chris! Kiss her, goddamn it!" But no. No kiss. No hug. No caressing of her cheek with the back of his hand. No brushing the hair out of her face. Not even a punch on the arm, "hey partner, welcome back!" NOTHING. Ugh. And THEN, when they're on the chopper at the end, they're sitting on opposite sides! WTF was that?! Wouldn't he want to be as close to her as possible?

I can't blame Chris for not making a move. It's all on Capcom.

[Gradon]

One word, vagina.
Also, her hair colour was EXPLAINED?
Do tell, I must have missed something?

[Vector]

One word, vagina.
Also, her hair colour was EXPLAINED?
Do tell, I must have missed something?

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Investigate the computer on the elevator after you fight U-8.

[Sina]

um yeah well really none of the Re characters outfits fit the situation and if you think Jill's RE3 outfit was skanky I'd love to know what you think of Clarie and Ada's Re2 outfits and Ada's outfit in RE4 as she was showing more skin than Jill in that game.

As for Raccoon City, Claire was just going to visit her brother. Ada was a spy pretending to be a civilian. Jill knew there was a zombie outbreak in the streets, and while in her apartment collecting her weapons preparing for her "last escape", she opened her closet and said: "hmm, what would be appropriate for an adventure climbing out of the rubble and chaos of this city while killing hordes of zombies? My police uniform? Maybe even just a pair of jeans and a jacket? Oooh! My miniskirt and these fab kneehigh boots. Oh! And that tubetop is just sooo cute. I guess I'll have that sweater around my waist incase it gets nippy later. Hmm, maybe I should wear a sportsbra or something since I have to run and stuff. Nah, fuck that noise, girl's gotta look sexy! Zombies, prepare to be dazzled!"

Ada's outfit in RE4 was retarded too, maybe even more so, but this is a Jill topic. There are alot of outfits in the RE series that raise more than a few eyebrows, but what makes Jill's special is the horde of obsessive fanatics intent on defending it to the death from any critisism.

"Kiss her, Chris! Kiss her, goddamn it!" But no. No kiss. No hug. No caressing of her cheek with the back of his hand. No brushing the hair out of her face. Not even a punch on the arm, "hey partner, welcome back!" NOTHING. Ugh.

Guh... We should all be happy you're not a writer for Capcom. I thought that moment was handled very naturally, given the situation. Chris cradling her after she collapsed was enough of a gesture to show his concern. Granted, I wasn't sure what was going to happen in the scene. I thought there was a good chance Jill was going to die after the "I'm so sorry...", so the tension of that really sold Chris's caution. And you forget that Jill and Chris are not fuck-buddies. Their relationship is more of an army brotherhood loyalty bond kind of thing, so while they obviously care for eachother deeply, why the hell would they kiss?

The moment is interrupted when Jill, who's been forced to listen to Wesker's plan for who knows how long, snaps out of her suffering to ensure Chris knows the seriousness of the situation. While it's great they're together again and all, the entire world is at stake. I think she sold that really well. Amazing scene in my opinion.

As for her hair colour, I thought that was a great way to make her feel corrupted and evil, that she'd gone through alot, and that this wasn't the same Jill you were fighting, that she had been changed. It really made the whole thing kinda tragic, but dramatic in that way.

[ValentineKnight]

Chris I know I was just curious what he thought of the other outfits considering he seemed to LOVE to bash Jill's outfit saying it didn't fit the situation and what not...and yeah I would have loved Chris and Jill to have a moment...(ChrisxJill fan here) and Sina some people think Chris and Jill's bond is deeper than just "friends"(considering the games seem to really hint at it and RE5 even more so) hence why we would have liked to have seen something.Also stop bashing people

[Zimdictive]

One word, vagina.
Also, her hair colour was EXPLAINED?
Do tell, I must have missed something?

Yah. Seems to shoot Sina out of the sky, also. Interesting from generic, eh? (Seems you've got that backward.) If this was 4chan I'd ignore you, but, since you're being serious - let me laugh even harder. Oh, lolCapcom. They actually added that to the battle suit's skin.

Meh, if you want something done right, do it yourself. I'll still play the series, but it took a serious dive with 4. This has recouped it somewhat... playing with Japanese guys on Mercs was a hell load of fun (everyone else I played sucked awfully, except a couple of French guys), but it's not Resident Evil any longer. Just like no Alien after Aliens was a true continuation. Much the same scenario, also; from the likes of Scott and Cameron, we take a massive dive in favour of the pockets of Fox execs.

Anyway. I do wish BSAA Jill's kit in Mercs was any good. And, RE5 Jill might not look a whole like RE3 Jill, but, on close inspection, she looks very similar to the renderings of Remake/UC Jill. And the brown roots is a nice touch - I didn't notice. I kind of rushed my play through.

I keenly anticipate news of RE6. Hoping aside, I'd put money down on who I think willl be lead or at least playable, judging from RE5's direction.

[Vector]

Guh... We should all be happy you're not a writer for Capcom. I thought that moment was handled very naturally, given the situation. Chris cradling her after she collapsed was enough of a gesture to show his concern. Granted, I wasn't sure what was going to happen in the scene. I thought there was a good chance Jill was going to die after the "I'm so sorry...", so the tension of that really sold Chris's caution. And you forget that Jill and Chris are not fuck-buddies. Their relationship is more of an army brotherhood loyalty bond kind of thing, so while they obviously care for eachother deeply, why the hell would they kiss?

I'll admit, it was the uber-fan in me that was talking to the TV.

The fan in me wanted to see a kiss. A hug. Eyes welling up. Anything. Any showing of emotion from Chris to solidify the last two years of his life, hunting down Jill's possible whereabouts. Think about it...your partner/good friend/possible love interest "dies" right before your eyes. You'd be torn up. You'd be horrified. You'd be haunted. And it looks like Chris was all of these things. Then, he finds out she's alive. THEN, she fights and tries to kill him. THEN he saves her, and she's officially back, alive, in his arms, and he does...nothing? He's spent all this time, he dedicated himself to finding her(as Excella said, "Jill, Jill, Jill. You're like a broken record.") and then...nothing. "Oh. You're alive. Hi Jill."

A warm embrace would've sufficed.

The moment is interrupted when Jill, who's been forced to listen to Wesker's plan for who knows how long, snaps out of her suffering to ensure Chris knows the seriousness of the situation. While it's great they're together again and all, the entire world is at stake. I think she sold that really well. Amazing scene in my opinion.

It was a great scene, but like I said, I would've liked to have seen more emotion. That scene was powerful but it could've been even more powerful if Chris made it seem more...real. And okay, the world was at an end, that's a given...but even in the helicopter after everything's ship-shape, they don't even sit next to each other. I dunno. I just wanted to see more...and I doubt I'm alone in this.

Yeah. At the bare minimum, they're partners. It's a "professional" relationship, say whatever you want. They've worked together for almost 10 years, and formed a bond over that time. There's no interest between the two of them at all? None of the past memories and things they've experienced TOGETHER would've made Chris want to show some emotion towards her?

[ValentineKnight]

Chris trust me you're not, I wanted Chris and Jill to have babies after this game

[Sina]

So let me get this straight. You have this fantasy that Chris and Jill are lovers because of "hints", and now you didn't like the RE5 scene between Jill and Chris because it pretty much makes it clear they're just friends? You can't blame the RE5 writers for not catering to something you've concocted in your imagination.

Anyway, you said it yourself. You want there to be something more. There are people out there utterly convinced Frodo and Sam are lovers, and while the LOTR movies certainly seem to hint at that, you can be damn sure the writers didn't have that intention.

And while the overall Resident Evil writing is alot of things, one thing it is not is subtle. If there was a romantic relationship between Jill and Chris they certainly wouldn't've made it vague.

Now I'm not saying they would never have romantic thoughts about eachother. Realistically they probably do have feelings for eachother that go alittle further than friendship, but you're saying they're basically a couple, and that Chris should've reacted as if Jill was his girlfriend lying in his arms. I just don't think that would've made sense.

I thought a nice touch you haven't mentioned was after the Jill scene when Chris and Sheva leave the elevator to go to the boat, and Chris sort of hangs back abit and seems sort of shellshocked over what just happened, until Sheva asks if he's ok. I thought that spoke volumes of how much Jill's return meant to him, and how fucked up what just happened was.

As for the chopper ride, I think the writers just didn't want to cut Sheva out of the scene by making it about Jill/Chris all of a sudden. He's sitting infront of both his partners in equality. I just don't see the scene working if Chris sat next to Jill, her had leaning against his shoulder, and Sheva looking on from the opposite side like some abandoned puppy when the entire game had been about Chris/Sheva up until then.

[CODE_umb87]

I thought that moment was handled very naturally, given the situation. Chris cradling her after she collapsed was enough of a gesture to show his concern. Granted, I wasn't sure what was going to happen in the scene. I thought there was a good chance Jill was going to die after the "I'm so sorry...", so the tension of that really sold Chris's caution. And you forget that Jill and Chris are not fuck-buddies. Their relationship is more of an army brotherhood loyalty bond kind of thing, so while they obviously care for eachother deeply, why the hell would they kiss?

I completely agree. She was weak and injured and it just wouldn't seem right if Chris started making out with her. It also must have been very awkward for Chris having two partners. He seemed a little confused when Jill said, "Dont you trust your partner?".

[Jill's Boob]

First I'll address the ridiculous nature of female costumes. Yes, they are very much sexualized (RE3 Jill, RE4 Ada, catsuit Jill, tribal Sheva[at least this is an alternative costume]). Many, many pages back myself & others ripped on Jill's RE3 attire and how it made no sense for an ex-Delta Force/STARS agent to be running around a zombie infested city with slut attire. And as my avatar shows, the harlot didn't even wear a bra. Fan service? Yeah. But it should have been an alternative costume. Not the main costume of the game. Fucking stupid.

It continued in RE4 with Ada's skimpy dress as she swung around Spain like Spider-Man with her grappling gun. While Leon was cold enough to sport a jacket, Ada was happy wearing next to nothing. An Asian dress and heels. She's making gymnast landings in heels?! Jesus, that game's attempts to make the characters uber-cool absolutely ruins an otherwise fun (yet mindless) romp. Ada's attire in "Assignment Ada" was much more logical and suited for the mission at hand.

Another thing with scantily clad Ada & Jill...just where the hell do they store weapons, herbs, items? Are they doing like the "Pulp Fiction" hide the wristwatch method?

Jill's catsuit in RE5 didn't bother me. Sure it is skintight and shows off everything, but she wore it underneath the cloak most of the time. It also allowed her to be lithe. And it seems to be right up Wesker's alley for getting clothes tailor made.

I have to disagree here. There's no doubting that she's a main character of this series, and in RE5 she was nothing more than a shitty plot device and an advertising tool. The trailers said "Jill's dead." OMFG, she's dead?! NO WAI!! I guarantee some people bought this game just because Jill was in it(won't name names here *cough*)...and that's what Capcom wanted.

Sheva replaced her as Chris's partner, and Jill's main character status was replaced by her status as a plot device.

I don't necessarily see it that way. Jill has had plenty of exposure in the RE universe. This was Chris's story. Sure, Jill became a plot device in this game, but all along, these two have pretty much been together. In RE3, Jill was trying to escape RC to meet up with Chris. In the REUC Russian mission, they have teamed back up and are continuing their exploits from RE1. Chris & Jill were partners who helped form the BSAA and traveled the world together (as per the file in the Library).

Finding Jill became a driving force for Chris going to Africa. I don't have a problem with that. And the Spencer Estate flashback was very powerful.

Jill didn't have much screen time in RE5, and I'm okay with that. What little she did have was emotional and moving. Could her presence have been improved greatly? Yes. But this is RE, where character development has always taken a backseat.

Exactly. And that's upsetting. No character development, ever. I would've loved to see more emotion from Chris when he found out Jill was alive, and then again when he saved her. But no...nothing. I'll have more on that later in this post.

True. Their reunion should have been magnified. Chris spent 2 years searching for Jill, after having been her "partner" for 8 years. Plus, in the original RE1, they hold hands on the helo (PS1 version). Also, in the PS1 and REmake ending, when you fail to rescue Chris, watch the scene between Jill & Barry. It tells you something more may be going on. And Jill's epilogue from RE3. Also the jail cell hug in RE1 & REmake. Not to mention Chris's nodding when Sheva asks if he and Jill were close. Chris simply says "We were partners" but maybe he is just trying to be professional. And also, when Sheva asks if Chris knows for certain the woman in the picture is Jill, his response speaks volumes.

Anyway, my disappointment stems from the fact that Leon & Ada can fall in love & kiss just from knowing each other for a few hours, but no clear indication for Chris & Jill? Give me a fucking break.

Then again, it IS Leon. I mean, in RE4 alone, he's barely even been around Ashley for a few hours and she wants to fuck. And Leon barely spoke with Hunnigan via codec...err, I mean radio, and already he's hitting on her. Then he meets Angela Miller for a few hours and she's already dating him. Fucking ridiculous.

Interesting...that would definitely be cool. I'd like to see something starring either Jill or hell, even Josh Stone. I was pleasantly surprised with Josh. He was a pretty cool ancillary character, and he clearly has an emotional connection with Sheva...it would be nice to maybe play as him.

Yeah, I liked Josh as well. I could definitely see Jill & Josh teaming up in a Co-Op game, if Capcom chooses to make the future DLC game a co-op experience like the RE5 main game (if there is indeed a Jill "Separate Ways" game in the future). Personally, I'd rather it be a single player affair featuring Jill's escape to meet up with Josh and get on the helo to rescue Chris & Sheva.

I can't blame Chris for not making a move. It's all on Capcom.

Well, they didn't hug but they did a lot of staring into each other's eyes instead of talking. Sure, the reunion could have been more emotional and displayed more affection, but, this is Capcom. Again, I cite the Leon/Ada love forming in a few hours, and the Steve/Claire forced love plot. RE games feature terrible relationship angles. I'm sure that Billy/Rebecca were also supposed to have some feelings for each other as well. To me, Chris & Jill are the only ones with actual substance to their relationship, yet it is the most ambiguous.

Chris cradling her after she collapsed was enough of a gesture to show his concern.

Yeah, it was sufficient, but more could have been added post-credits. An epilogue of sorts to at least tell us what was next for Chris & Jill. Do they go off together? Do they retire? Do they become partners again at the BSAA? Anything would have been nice.

Just like no Alien after Aliens was a true continuation.

Actually, there's one part where a bunch of Lickers were coming at me and they were all crawling on the ceiling. It reminded me greatly of "Aliens" when Hicks looks up in the rafters (above some ceiling panels) and sees a bunch of xenomorphs crawling toward their position.

I really, really loved the Lickers in this game.

And while the overall Resident Evil writing is alot of things, one thing it is not is subtle. If there was a romantic relationship between Jill and Chris they certainly wouldn't've made it vague.

Now I'm not saying they would never have romantic thoughts about eachother. Realistically they probably do have feelings for eachother that go alittle further than friendship, but you're saying they're basically a couple, and that Chris should've reacted as if Jill was his girlfriend lying in his arms. I just don't think that would've made sense.

I think there have been subtle hints. But the fact that there is no clear cut resolution is kind of deflating. I personally would have liked to see an answer to the ChrisxJill thing. It doesn't ruin RE5 for me at all, but it is something I have always wondered.

Ever since they held hands at the end of the PS1 version of RE1, I've wondered what was going on. And still no concrete answer. Frustrating.