1.5 Map Confusion

[Darkmoon]

The guy e-mailed them to Inflames. I'm not entirely clear on the details, but there was a deal there...and then the guy vanished, sadly. It happens. Maybe he'll come back one day.

[Helegad]

Ohh, that sucks. Oh well, we'll get it one day

[ronin_akikage]

Hey Alzaire,

Sorry it's been a while since you posted (I had drill this weekend... still finishing up commitments to the USMC). Anway, real quick...

1) I consider the HELIPAD to be technically a "4th floor" which is ONLY made up of the helipad. This would also technically be the Rooftop. The area underneath the Helipad (which would be the 3rd floor) seems like it would be right above the balcony on the second floor.

2) I also agree that the 3rd floor is on the west wing of the RPD. I will soon have maps completed that would illustrate more of what I mean.

3) I've been trying to finish maps for a table-top RPG I've been making. It uses the Call of Cthulhu rules, which I want to put up on various sites. It'll be the closest thing at the moment for people to play RE 1.5... I want to be as accurate as possible with what the game would have been like.

4) Thanks for the pics of the service room. Never knew of the sewer entrance there. Same with the basement hallways.

5) After reading all the posts of this topic page, I got the brainstorm that there should be pages for THINK TANK topics, such as puzzles, story, maps/layouts, etc for people to discuss and brainstorm. BIOFLAMES would be the best spot for that, and it'd give members projects to work on. While its impossible for us to figure out what the game would be like, its a great way for the community to work together. And I think this topic page shows it. I feel some progress has been made in these pages... to think what it'd be like if more people were to join in, study images, and videos, and help make their own ideas of what the layouts could be like.

I hope to have those maps done soon. Thanks again, Alzaire.

[kevstah2004]

Oh I see what you're saying about the backgrounds. Yeah some of them seem kinda bad or different quality, esp. as you say with the Umbrella building lobby. They are unfinished though and probably just hadn't been fine-tuned yet.

And omg I hope you're merely telling me the gun resembles the HK53 and not that -is- an HK53. I've had to fight that argument so many times, it's not even funny...

The MC51 is a real gun and looks exactly like it does in the game image. It's a variant of the G3 made by FR Ordinance in the UK. The inventory name for the item supports that it is an MC51 (see below)

Sorry Kev, but neither of the points you brought up are correct based on game data and information. There is no such weapon you describe in 1.5. It -is- the MC51 machine gun being used. The Complete Disc video you're basing your visual evidence on is blurry and bad quality and the length of the barrel you drew is longer than it actually is. I don't see why you're really trying to argue this with me when I already stated the item list doesn't support it. The entire 1.5 weapon list is known, confirmed by actual game data, and your machine gun is not in it.

And it is confirmed as fact by the person who took Inflames's images (and hence has played the game) that Leon does not have access to the grenade launcher. He uses hand grenades only. Leon is in the "ready to throw" position in the video. Even if you were right, which you're not, how would you explain him switching from hand grenades to the grenade launcher in real time? I've studied this video many times, as someone else tried to argue the same thing before years ago. There is no launcher there, if anything you're seeing video distortion. You can watch the goromacida video where Leon throws grenades too and see he uses the exact same "ready to throw" stance when aiming the hand grenades.

And to prove my first point about the machine gun. Let's look at the complete and confirmed legitimate 1.5 Weapons List straight from 1.5 game data itself.



Sorry, no M249, Minime, or any other machinegun beyond the MC51 and Ingram M10. The game model of the weapon is slightly oversized, and it has a squarish straight magazine, this is why you think you're seeing the box magazine of the squad-weapon, esp. considering the CD video is not top quality enough. If you look at other footage, esp. RE2 97' E3 footage, from when the MC51 was still in early RE2 retail, you can see how it it's a little oversized and the magazine looks blocky and large.

And just to clarify, it's pretty obvious Capcom made a mistake with the MC51 item name (this isn't the first time they got a weapon name/model wrong either). I imagine they were going for "H&K NC51", but you can google up NC51 all you want and find nothing. The fact the same weapon was brought from 1.5 into early RE2 and the inventory picture and details match the MC51, it is pretty evident this item is indeed, the FR Ordinance MC51.

I found the inventory pic in beta 2


Also the pc version of 2 has the picture of either the RE2 MAC without the silencer or it's the MAC from the PC RE1 reused as a unused placeholder 0F & 65.


1st pic is from RE2 original version for the PS1.
2nd pic is a unused placeholder pic somewhat similar to the MAC in the PC version of RE1.
3rd pic is the replaced pc picture, why they replaced it with a crapper picture i'll never know.

[GraaD]

I was trying to map the baseent level for about a month and came up with nine different versions of it, but none of them seem to be nearly fitting. Today I started reading this topic and found out two facts I happened to miss while studing the materials:

1) The yellow "medical" door in the end of a dark hallway in 97 year's trailer, wich Alzaire pointed at. The truth is I still have doubts about it, for it can be just my imagination. I looked into this place many times before and never managed to decide what exactly there is in the end of it. But now when you said there is a door, I actually started seeing it. Thanks for this useful tip. I was happy to know this, for I wanted this room be in a basement, since the morgue is there.

2) The zombie figure, stepping through the wall in the same place, gave you an idea that the turn with an Exit door is to the left of there. While my point from the very beginning was that this place is a T-like hall with a Firing Range and an Armory doors one. Now I started to doubt that. =)

I also decided to show what I came up with (one of the latest variations at least). Sorry about the mess but I was too lazy to make it cleaner... I'm pretty sure about the sizes (scale) of most locations, because I started modelling many of them already.


P.S. Oh, I almost forgot! I have an important question to ask. Does everyone think the Firing Range has to be side-by-side to the dogs' cages, or it's location doesn't have to be connected to the Kernel, just being somewhere around? Thanks.

[ronin_akikage]

Based upon some of the photos of the burning van area, it seems like the parking garage is next to that area. One picture of the balcony above it appears to show an exit ramp. I have a few more concepts that back up my theory, I just gotta get the package together. I could email it to you so you can adjust your maps if you want if you end up agreeing. Glad to see someone as interested in this as me.

[onimusha222000]

the is nice!!~i hope there are more 1.5map showing up in the further~~
by the way....just wanted to share more 1.5 lab area video~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJIOlwtb_c&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEApvfSHNoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-BH5RoiWuY

[GraaD]

A few more questionable moments here and there...


onimusha222000, nice work. It feels the way it has to.

[Alzaire]

That map isn't very good overall. The garage placement is an obstruction in the middle of the street in that map. Very unlikely and just plain out out of place. There are only a couple of places the garage would likely be. 3 in fact, and 1 of them is very sketchy.

The 2 large rooms in the middle area of the map are unnecessary. If you're going for a design that's supposed to resemble a more authentic one, you can toss em out and try to add as little extra space as possible. Right now it seems they are just there to fill space that doesn't need to be filled.

The hall you have for the firing range/armory is badly designed and incorrect. It does not match up with the same hall from the CD video 1 and the other '97 trailer video. The CD video and '97 trailer hallway are either the same one, or at the very least 3 separate hallways/3 separate areas. The firing range and armory location in relative to your hall design is definitely wrong.

The "door" you have in the corner of the kennel hall is not a room door. It's a storage compartment built into the wall with a set of sliding doors.

For Ronin: After doing some investigation and studies with c2keo, we have come to a conclusion that the garage most likely does -not- exit out of the east side of the building like previously believed. It was a good theory, but after many attempts at trying to make it fit, we decided it is extremely unlikely. (this is the sketchy placement I mentioned above)

The scale and size of rooms and halls is off -badly- in pretty much every area.

The "medical door" was only speculation, I admit. After further study, the hall is shorter than it looks. There may not be a door straight at the end of the hall, but it for sure does not branch to the left or right. If there is a door down there, it seems to be on the right wall. Inconclusive.

The thing inside the garage service room is an object of some kind on the wall. While it isn't obvious exactly what it is, it is almost pretty certainly not a door. It has a design that doesn't lend it to be a door.

Lights turned on/off in corridors - possible, but no visual evidence.

No reason the kennel has to be near the firing ranges, in response to the question.

My advice:

You're not gonna get it 100% accurate. Neither am I. Not with the amount of material we have. There are some inconclusive things, but you did get some things wrong and if you want as much authenticity as possible, those should be fixed.

If you don't agree with my complaints or ideas, that's your choice. Make your best judgment and stick with it.

And on that note, I'd recommend not showing off your maps. You are making a game. Let the player experience your map and layout design for themselves when they play it. So as I said, make your judgment and stick with it and spend your time making the game how you want it. I know you might want some ideas on speculative things, but like I said, there's too much inconclusiveness and nobody will be able to get it right 100%.

[GraaD]

There are only a couple of places the garage would likely be. 3 in fact, and 1 of them is very sketchy.

Could you please mark those 3 positions according to the 1st floor map? I've read this topic and saw a few variants, but I'd be thankful if you point at them all together once again.

The "door" you have in the corner of the kennel hall is not a room door. It's a storage compartment built into the wall with a set of sliding doors.

You mean the "door" that leads to a big unnessesary area on my map? Hmm... *looks at it closely* I guess you are right. A small inbuilt storage fits there much better. The question is - how many sliding doors you presume to be there? Two are most likely, I guess, but could be wrong once again.

The thing inside the garage service room is an object of some kind on the wall.

Thanks. I was wondering a lot about this. It doesn't look exactly like a door, but still I wasn't completely sure. I also didn't come up with any object of such look so far. This whole area reinds me of the first Dino Crisis where the elevators area is beyond a similar gate.

No reason the kennel has to be near the firing ranges, in response to the question.

I've heard a theory of the dogs being alarmed and running through a wall from kennel to the firing range. I know at least one man who thought there has to be a connection between those and so I decided to ask.

There are some inconclusive things, but you did get some things wrong and if you want as much authenticity as possible, those should be fixed.

I'd like to do so and appreciate your recomendations a lot. Making a game I really need to take care of every detail known so far, otherwise my efforts will be a total waste of time after all, and many locations will have to be redone.

If you don't agree with my complaints or ideas, that's your choice. Make your best judgment and stick with it.

What you say seems right. There are lots of details I haven't noticed and have to be pointed at. I only disagree about the scale, but it's really a matter of camera FOV's. I ended up on vertical FOV 60 wich seemed like the most suiting for a few rooms. I can easily be wrong about it as well after all... But it works for some rooms compared to a character's size for now.

[onimusha222000]

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/resident-evil-1-5-new-footage/121730

i hope this video will help someone to make the map~^^!

[Alzaire]

Could you please mark those 3 positions according to the 1st floor map? I've read this topic and saw a few variants, but I'd be thankful if you point at them all together once again.

I've worked on the Basement map ideas tons of times. In fact, compared to the upper floors, I consider it the hardest for the simple fact that there is so much of the basement we have images of, but we're missing just enough to tie it together and allows various configurations to almost work but not feel right and/or have issues. At least with the upper floors, there's so much missing that it pretty much requires coming up with an almost entirely guessed and made up layout.

Anyway. These are the 3 most likely spots and the arrows point in the direction the garage could exit from.



The one on the left side can possibly exit out of the left too. The reasoning behind a possible left-side garage is the fact there is some kind of structure there, and the garage's ceiling is a fair bit higher than the rest of the main basement level, as well as considering the ceiling will extend upwards on the ramp. This is also one of the reasons why it is unlikely the garage is directly underneath the RPD and exiting out the right side. It -could- be dismissed as a Capcom error, but the other 2 locations allow for more flexibility with the basement floor plan.

The garage to the north is a possibility because there was an old concept art that resembles a very general concept resembling 1.5's RPD that has the garage in the rear (north area mapwise) of the RPD. It can exit out to the north, or possibly to the east.

Underneath the RPD exiting to the east is a possibility, but in the opinion of me and c2keo, it's a somewhat unlikely one. I used to consider it the best idea, because it would explain the extended area of the building on the east side that is known to exist because of the PSM video but does not match up with the legit known 1F map. However, the ceiling is very high and the length of the ramp in scale with the expected length and placement does not really fit very well, and is highly restrictive of the design of the rest of the floor plan.

Anywhere else would conflict with known street placements or buildings and such, or would require an extremely complicated/weird/illogical layout in order to connect to the garage.

You mean the "door" that leads to a big unnessesary area on my map? Hmm... *looks at it closely* I guess you are right. A small inbuilt storage fits there much better. The question is - how many sliding doors you presume to be there? Two are most likely, I guess, but could be wrong once again.

Yeah, probably a 2 door storage. Considering this area's proximity to the kennel, I nabbed this little cubby-hole from a retail background. My interpretation is that in 1.5, that sliding door thing would resemble something like this:


If you look closely in the Inflames image on the very right side, you can see what appears to be the slide-handle of the door on the right, indicating that the right door is probably open like in my mockup image.

Thanks. I was wondering a lot about this. It doesn't look exactly like a door, but still I wasn't completely sure. I also didn't come up with any object of such look so far. This whole area reinds me of the first Dino Crisis where the elevators area is beyond a similar gate.

I could see how it appears to be a door, but seems to take on a more 3-dimensional shape. I used to believe it was a small wash-sink and maybe a mirror, for the mechanics to wash their hands at, but that's just a theory.

I've heard a theory of the dogs being alarmed and running through a wall from kennel to the firing range. I know at least one man who thought there has to be a connection between those and so I decided to ask.

An interesting theory, but I would take it as just a theory. There's no reason why the kennel can't be close to the firing range (though they are certainly not in the same exact hallway), but no reason to support that it is either. So it would be just up to the layout of the map that is made.

I'd like to do so and appreciate your recomendations a lot. Making a game I really need to take care of every detail known so far, otherwise my efforts will be a total waste of time after all, and many locations will have to be redone.

What you say seems right. There are lots of details I haven't noticed and have to be pointed at. I only disagree about the scale, but it's really a matter of camera FOV's. I ended up on vertical FOV 60 wich seemed like the most suiting for a few rooms. I can easily be wrong about it as well after all... But it works for some rooms compared to a character's size for now.

You are pretty definitely grossly off in the scale of your rooms by going by the map you drew up.

Look here:



I enlarged the legit 1F map to scale to your map by matching it up with the size of your elevator and the stairwell room attached. You can clearly see how way oversized the scale of your map is.

- Your power room is almost the same size as the Lobby and Reception Area combined.
- Your morgue is almost the same size as the Reception Area.
- Your firing range is just about 2/3 the size of the entire first floor.
- Your Jail area is also nearly 2/3 the size of the building, with the individual holding cells each nearly half the size each of the lobby.

Clearly, your scale is way too big. Also the length of some hallways are incorrect. In the "Main Hall", the distance from the Stair Room door and the T junction (which leads to the morgue area) is supposed to be longer than the point between the T junction to the power room, and yours is too long.

Even if you were to simply reduce the size of the map, this puts the stairwell rooms and elevators out of proportion by becoming too small compared to the rest of the areas. So this definitely needs a large overhaul.

There's also supposed to be 6 dog cages.

There are other small errors in scale as well.

Let me give you a tip for making maps and figuring out scale and dimensions that I personally use while working on my maps.



Meet "Makeshift Person". See that black plus sign? That's him. Start with a room that is easy to relate to. The elevator and it's related stairwell from 1F is a perfect spot, because you can trace it from the legit 1F map and start from there. What I do is I create a separate layer for this plus icon on my maps in photoshop. I make the plus sign roughly the size of a player character in general, usually doing this by scaling it to the size of a regular 1-size door. The reason it's a plus sign is so that it can represent the size of a player facing both N-S and E-W. I often move it around the map to get a gauge of the scale of the room and if it looks about right while going along with images and videos. It can still be difficult due to camera angles and perspective distortion in the media, but with the Makeshift Person icon, imagination, and careful study and character distance timing (with videos) it has become a lot easier to get scaling and dimensions more correct with each revision of my maps, and it's mostly thanks to the plus sign representing a character lately. Is it perfect? No, but it helps a ton.

Also, always always use the legit 1F map as a basis and try to judge scale to that.

[GraaD]

Basement map v0.10 without making a mess of pictures. It suits the size of F1 with the exception of pargking and the lower part wich is ok if there was a large frontyard in front of the police station.

By the way, did anyone try to compare the sewer hall to a police station layout? There are at least to points to be merged.

[goodbye!]

Black Crow put togetheir maps in a video which can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lugp3ctZnSE

[Enetirnel]

Black Crow put togetheir maps in a video which can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lugp3ctZnSE

Thank you, however as far as I was aware the Black Crow ones were a bit outdated after the discussion over on Bioflames. Or am I wrong on that? ;