What do you think is the most/least cheesy RE game?

[Bianca]

Reading all this stuff between Jill’s Boob and valentinesdead? about Spencer and Wesker’s desire to be “gods” reminds me of all the potential Resident Evil 4 had with the religious cult storyline. RE4 was obviously so far removed from the original storyline to begin with, but I feel like there were so many plausible ways to insert shreds of familiarity while still keeping what Capcom apparently so desperately wanted (no more zombies, no more Umbrella, etc.).

I’m not sure how many of recall all the speculation that went on in the fandom before we knew anything about the deeper storyline in RE4, but I specifically remember someone in the fandom getting a hold of one of the Brady Games guidebooks several weeks prior to RE4’s actual release. The guidebook hardly reveals anything about the storyline, and so many people were positive that Saddler would be revealed to be Spencer somewhere in the game. That, and before we were given a definitive answer on who Ashley was, we all concluded she was Sherry when the first trailer showed Leon holding out a picture of a blonde girl. That theory was stomped on rather quickly, though, since the very next trailer revealed who the blonde girl was, “the President’s daughter.”

Since Spencer was (apparently) so obsessed with godhood, it would’ve made so much more since for him to run off to a foreign country and start a cult, using the same techniques he had implemented with Umbrella. Las Plagas would have still been created as a means for mind-control, and knowing Spencer’s background with Umbrella and the research the company had done with bio-weaponry would have made the parasite’s creation have more depth as opposed to the whole Salazar family thing.

At least, to me, that all would’ve made more sense than Spencer just going into hiding for so many years after the Raccoon City incident.

Replace Ashley with Sherry, and instead of having the “terrorism” aspect of RE4 (infect the President’s daughter and send her back to America, hurhurhurhur!), there could have been a more profound storyline with Spencer using Sherry as a test-subject for whatever reason. I mean, certainly Spencer getting a hold of Sherry would have been an interesting plot twist, and that might have been an additional reason Ada was sent to Spain by Wesker, to get Sherry back while also retrieving a sample of Las Plagas.

It would have been a nice tie-in to RE5’s storyline, and RE5 still could have been mostly the same as long as Spencer wasn’t killed off RE4 (which I would’ve preferred him not to be, because Leon killing Spencer instead of Wesker would have been pretty lame).

Of course, none of this was really possible at all since Capcom does not plan ahead with games, and at the time of RE4’s creation, no one knew what direction they would be taking for Spencer and Wesker’s characterizations in RE5. Still, like I said, it reminds me of all the rabid speculation there was for RE4 in late 2004, and ever since RE5 was released, I’ve constantly been thinking back to all of that and the relation between Spencer and Wesker’s obsession with godhood and the religious themes in RE4.

So many missed opportunities. :[

[Jill's Boob]

Like this?

It's almost like Wesker enjoyed having Chris around...and yeah, he could have killed him there in the plane. He could have killed him when Jill had Chris pinned on the ground as well after the 2-on-2 fight. I think Wesker imagined the greatest blow to Chris would have been not to kill him, but to have Chris witness Wesker's plan coming to fruition.

Though Wesker probably intended to kill Chris before Jill tackled him out the window. And maybe during the RECV end fight.

Wesker really wasn't paying Jill much mind in the Spencer Estate encounter. It's almost creepy just how much Wesker fixates on Chris throughout the series...

As for your pics up there, that custom STARS pistol of Wesker's is the perfect example of "fan service," a term many people 'round these parts are misusing when referring to Jill's presence in RE5.

So many missed opportunities. :[

Unfortunately, we fans are also to blame by letting our imaginations craft a detailed, exciting plot in our minds (and obviously 100% to our liking), only to feel letdown when the actual product is played.

[valentinesdead?]

Reading all this stuff between Jill’s Boob and valentinesdead? about Spencer and Wesker’s desire to be “gods” reminds me of all the potential Resident Evil 4 had with the religious cult storyline. Of course, none of this was really possible at all since Capcom does not plan ahead with games, and at the time of RE4’s creation, no one knew what direction they would be taking for Spencer and Wesker’s characterizations in RE5. Still, like I said, it reminds me of all the rabid speculation there was for RE4 in late 2004, and ever since RE5 was released, I’ve constantly been thinking back to all of that and the relation between Spencer and Wesker’s obsession with godhood and the religious themes in RE4.

So many missed opportunities. :[

Maybe. . . maybe one day--there can be a set of REAL Resident Evil films made that can take advantage of this. I myself have a basic idea for a RE quadilogy that would encompass RE1-Re5. Really, the RE source material is very rich stuff. But as long as you have nimrods in charge, and peole paying to see garbage--no hope

It's almost like Wesker enjoyed having Chris around...and yeah, he could have killed him there in the plane. He could have killed him when Jill had Chris pinned on the ground as well after the 2-on-2 fight. I think Wesker imagined the greatest blow to Chris would have been not to kill him, but to have Chris witness Wesker's plan coming to fruition.

Though Wesker probably intended to kill Chris before Jill tackled him out the window. And maybe during the RECV end fight.

Wesker really wasn't paying Jill much mind in the Spencer Estate encounter. It's almost creepy just how much Wesker fixates on Chris throughout the series...

I think this kinda falls under the whole "Wesker wanting to control everything." Besides spencer pulling out the carpet from Wesker's feet, Chris is really the only one(and Jill as well really) who has managed to go against Wesker's will. Wesker's was obsessed with not simply killing Chris, but wanted to defeat him in every conceivable way. It all goes back to the mansion incident. Things didn't go the way Wesker planned, and when things don't go the way he plans, there's hell to pay!

And yet, in RE1, and RECVX, Chris somehow, someway, slipped through Wesker's fingers. Even Jill was going to be used as the first Urborous subject--you just know Wesker would have lured Chris to him for that freak show. It's simply apart of Wesker's insanity. How can a simple man, non-super powered, non-super speed, best him, twice prior to RE5?

[Bianca]

Maybe. . . maybe one day--there can be a set of REAL Resident Evil films made that can take advantage of this. I myself have a basic idea for a RE quadilogy that would encompass RE1-Re5. Really, the RE source material is very rich stuff. But as long as you have nimrods in charge, and peole paying to see garbage--no hope

Unfortunately, we fans are also to blame by letting our imaginations craft a detailed, exciting plot in our minds (and obviously 100% to our liking), only to feel letdown when the actual product is played.

What bothers me, though, is that there is an identical theme in both RE4 and RE5—the desire to become a “god”—but there’s hardly an attempt to connect those two entities together. Aside from the presence of Las Plagas and its use to control those infected, no similarity links Los Illuminados cult to what was happening in RE5 with Spencer and Wesker’s motives to achieve some sort of godhood. You have to wonder, really, if that religious theme slipped Capcom’s minds. And, like I said, it reminds me everyone’s ancient theories that Saddler = Spencer when certainly, since their motives were the same (give or take the “terrorism” aspect of Saddler’s), it’s curious as to why there’s no correlation between the two characters in the canon.

[Pikminister]

First off, I never said or accused you of being a comic book guy. Lol, never had anything to do with this friendly trading of ideas here.

LOL I made that comparison just to point out that I'm not exactly an expert regarding comic books. That's why I said "I'm not the Comic Book guy, however I do happen to know just enough..."

What exactly has ever, truly ever been original about Resident Evil? What Re villian has had a different goal than take over and dominate the world? Sure, Marcus just wanted to destroy the world, but that's about the same song and dance. Why should Wesker be any different, or be excluded from having the same end goal? I'm not disputing its been done, or not original, but in the end, as I said in my previous post, it's simply just a means to its end. An original plot isn't why I play, nor enjoy Resident Evil. And honestly, I could care less. "Originality" is overrated to begin with. As long as a story is good and engaging, does it really matter? At least not to me it doesn't.

It matters when they try to play off Wesker as something more than a typical super-villain. They build up this character for years and then you realize, that he's basically going to give you, as you well said in your previous post "the same song and dance". So I guess we can agree that he follows the same archetype or mold of the super-villain we've known for ages. My disappointment was based on thinking he could've been a little less predictable with his goals. Trying to do the same old stuff to the tenth degree and thus forcing the good guys to turn his lights out and make him eat missiles like D.C. said.

Well, I think that's some of the reason some fans don't like the whole RE5 wesker plot--they're not exactly trying to intrepuert the characterization change Wesker received. But Capcom kinda screwed up, because I even admit on my first playthrough--Wesker did seem out of character in his "master plan", but if you sit on it and take in the information in the Library, it's really not that much of a stretch from his original character. But I think, again, the blame probably should go to Capcom on this, because they really didn't connect the dots for the reader. Instead, the gamer kinda has too connect the dots themselves, and well, that's just another fault of RE5's "casually safe" story approach.

And that's something that I couldn't help noticing. And yet, it didn't ruined the experience. It's not like I play Zelda games mainly for the story. It's the gameplay. With RE is different since its so story driven. But I'm aware that the devs are just trying to make a game not a book. So I may talk about these issues, but I still enjoy the end product regardless of them. RE5 is tops and that's that.

Please, enlighten me as to just where the story could have gone.

No, there's no need for any enlightenment or any other religious orgasms. Just paying attention is all that is required.

I was talking about Wesker's character arc. How it was going in a way that made me expect something a bit more complex, only to find out that it ended in the same way as all character arcs do when it comes to the main super-villain. That is all.

[Jill's Boob]

No, there's no need for any enlightenment or any other religious orgasms. Just paying attention is all that is required.

I was talking about Wesker's character arc. How it was going in a way that made me expect something a bit more complex, only to find out that it ended in the same way as all character arcs do when it comes to the main super-villain. That is all.

So you're just criticizing for the sake of it? If you can't offer the slightest alternative path the story could have taken (meaning you have never once previously imagined a different story arc), then you are complaining just to complain.

It's easy to say "it sucked" just because it didn't satisfy you or meet your personal expectations, but apparently you cannot even tell me where else the story could have gone despite you saying "it was going in a way that made me expect something a bit more complex."

[The_15th]

RE 4 was mighty cheezy imo. Still, it's RE 0 that takes the cake.

[Pikminister]

So you're just criticizing for the sake of it? If you can't offer the slightest alternative path the story could have taken (meaning you have never once previously imagined a different story arc), then you are complaining just to complain.

Whoa!... Temper! temper!

First of all, I never said I imagined in GREAT DETAIL how Wesker's character arc would go. I simply felt that considering all what I had seen and read (including all his reports plus in-game files) I felt that he could've been given a more relevant role than that of the insanely ridikulas tentacle boss with a sweet spot that you have to shoot at. And I already wrote what role he could've been given. Oh yes I did.

And maybe it's news to you but forum users have been criticizing stuff just for the sake of it for AGES! The internets are not the home of negativity for nothin'. However in my case, I did explain why I felt the way I did regarding Wesker's character arc. And I also pointed out that those issues didn't ruined the awesome experience that was RE5.

It's easy to say "it sucked" just because it didn't satisfy you or meet your personal expectations, but apparently you cannot even tell me where else the story could have gone despite you saying "it was going in a way that made me expect something a bit more complex."

So easy to say "it sucked"... and yet I never did that once. WOW!

Was I disappointed? Yep (I already explained why). But did I thought it was the worse thing since Stephanie Meyer's craptacular fanfiction (Twilight) became the next best thing? Hell no.

Wesker's character arc didn't suck monkey balls at all. It just felt underdeveloped. Like if the writers were a bit lazy and took the easy road in regards to his arc. The typical handbook stuff on how to portray a super-villain.

And again, I already wrote a possible role for Wesker in the series that IMO would've benefited his character arc the long run. Read it.

[valentinesdead?]

Wesker's character arc didn't suck monkey balls at all. It just felt underdeveloped. Like if the writers were a bit lazy and took the easy road in regards to his arc. The typical handbook stuff on how to portray a super-villain.

Now that I can agree with. RE5 was underdeveloped. partly I think, and as Jill's Boob has said too, the forced co-op onto what was originally a single player game. That *hurt* the depth of the story no doubt. Also, all that information about the plot being dumped in the libary is another pillar of proof of the "not all the way" approach capcom took. Yes, the story could have used some more fleshing out and depth, but I still have no problem with the cliche "super-villian role". You say that he was going somewhere else? I don't know about you, but world-domination was about the only goal I really ever saw for Wesker(while not exactly the one we are given in RE5). Hell, RE4 hints at this in the Ada Assignment minigame.



Umbrella's one step closer to it's re-establishment, and once it is, there will be significant changes, in our world *Cue wicked Waugh laugh*


Capcom was more or less telegraphing the fact that Wesker had some "world dominating scheme" that may or may not have invovoled "Umbrella." Sure, Ada Assignment can't really be considered cannon(or is it possible, mixed cannon with Seperate Ways?), but Capcom's intentions were clear.

Actually, when you think about it, there's a valid question to be asked. What was Wesker's original intentions? RE5 certainly doesn't answer this--it may well never be "truly" answered, but I think that's another factor to take into the impact the Spencer meeting had on the Wesker character. It made him discard whatever those original intentions were, mostly likely because of not wanting to follow the "set path pre-designed for him".


But if we are to be honest, WEsker, no matter how utterly awesome he is, isn't really an exception to RE villian status. What makes him the the best villian of the series, and the exception, is as I argued before, not his "plans", but his personality, his character relationship with Chris and Jill. However, as far as actual "plotline", I think Chris sums it up best here.




I've had ENOUGH OF YOUR BULLSHIT!!

Wesker: Ahhhhh!

Chris: Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers


No matter how big a fan you are of Wesker, in the context of the RE universe, this is really all Wesker is--no different than any other power-hungary antagonist. Heh, really no more than a coward who before his super-powers, "hid behind Umbrella", as Ada says in her Report on him in RE4. Like other people who did(that may be one reason why he wanted to "create a new Umbrella). And its funny that, going back to the RE5 scene for a moment, after Chris injects him the second time with PG67AW, while he's telling Sheva to cover him as he goes for the override lever, we see Wesker like this.




Heaving, struggling, but utterly helpless, seething at Chris with hatred as he struggles to recomopose himself, because Chris is taking control away from him(again.) I think that small little moment was such a great touch by Capcom, because the mighty, god-like, untouchable Wesker, was reduced, for a moment, to a state of utter patheticness which reveals the real him. His real nature. Just another lunatic, who with nothing to hide behind, is just a plain ole pathetic excuse for a human being. I think the fact he also chose to *bond* with Urobours to fight Chris and Sheva is another piece of proof of that fact. Rather than take Chris on man to man, un-super-powered, he simply won't do that, giving up his actual human form, just for the chance to beat Chris once and for all.

So, really, in the context of the Re story, he's no better than Spencer, Alfred, Alexia, Birkin, Saddler, and any other major Re villians I missed. He just happened to be more cunning and strategic in preserving himself by playing the field right, but that's about it.

[jagger916]

I've had ENOUGH OF YOUR BULLSHIT!!

Best RE line ever.
Anyway thank you valentinesdead? for your in depth analysis. I have thought of Wesker in that way before but never in such length.

[Pikminister]

Now that I can agree with. RE5 was underdeveloped. partly I think, and as Jill's Boob has said too, the forced co-op onto what was originally a single player game. That *hurt* the depth of the story no doubt. Also, all that information about the plot being dumped in the libary is another pillar of proof of the "not all the way" approach capcom took. Yes, the story could have used some more fleshing out and depth, but I still have no problem with the cliche "super-villian role".

Like I said, they taking that approach didn't really hurt the game for me. Nor do I think Wesker's character arc was really-really bad. I hoped for more character arc development but I can live with what we got. No biggie.

You say that he was going somewhere else? I don't know about you, but world-domination was about the only goal I really ever saw for Wesker(while not exactly the one we are given in RE5). Hell, RE4 hints at this in the Ada Assignment minigame.

I never knew for sure if Wesker's character arc was going somewhere else or not. I only thought that based on his reports and some files I read and watching him in the games, that he was interested in tracing every move Umbrella made (especially what Spencer was up to).

So between RE1 and RE4 he went from someone that wanted to understand what the fudge Umbrella and Spencer were all about, to someone that wanted to 1up the company and then take over the development of bio-weapons.

And he certainly started out as the methodical evil genius that manipulated everyone around him. But once he got a little bit of power, he went a bit berserk (Code: Veronica). I think that game has more in common with the Wesker we see in RE5 than with the one we see in the first game or even in the reports.

Staying calm and collected and in the shadows while things turned in his favor was Wesker's M.O. or at least that's the impression that I got. He was the cool guy in shades that made HUNK look pedestrian (I kid HUNK fans!).

I just got more attached to that version of Wesker. And expected him to at least outsmart everyone in Umbrella (Spencer, Marcus, Birkin, Alexia, etc.) and have a bigger impact worldwide than any of them ever did (but in the long run). Unless we can get that through his legacy...

Capcom was more or less telegraphing the fact that Wesker had some "world dominating scheme" that may or may not have invovoled "Umbrella." Sure, Ada Assignment can't really be considered cannon(or is it possible, mixed cannon with Seperate Ways?), but Capcom's intentions were clear.

Actually, when you think about it, there's a valid question to be asked. What was Wesker's original intentions? RE5 certainly doesn't answer this--it may well never be "truly" answered, but I think that's another factor to take into the impact the Spencer meeting had on the Wesker character. It made him discard whatever those original intentions were, mostly likely because of not wanting to follow the "set path pre-designed for him".


But if we are to be honest, WEsker, no matter how utterly awesome he is, isn't really an exception to RE villian status. What makes him the the best villian of the series, and the exception, is as I argued before, not his "plans", but his personality, his character relationship with Chris and Jill. However, as far as actual "plotline", I think Chris sums it up best here.


No matter how big a fan you are of Wesker, in the context of the RE universe, this is really all Wesker is--no different than any other power-hungary antagonist. Heh, really no more than a coward who before his super-powers, "hid behind Umbrella", as Ada says in her Report on him in RE4. Like other people who did(that may be one reason why he wanted to "create a new Umbrella). And its funny that, going back to the RE5 scene for a moment, after Chris injects him the second time with PG67AW, while he's telling Sheva to cover him as he goes for the override lever, we see Wesker like this.

Heaving, struggling, but utterly helpless, seething at Chris with hatred as he struggles to recomopose himself, because Chris is taking control away from him(again.) I think that small little moment was such a great touch by Capcom, because the mighty, god-like, untouchable Wesker, was reduced, for a moment, to a state of utter patheticness which reveals the real him. His real nature. Just another lunatic, who with nothing to hide behind, is just a plain ole pathetic excuse for a human being. I think the fact he also chose to *bond* with Urobours to fight Chris and Sheva is another piece of proof of that fact. Rather than take Chris on man to man, un-super-powered, he simply won't do that, giving up his actual human form, just for the chance to beat Chris once and for all.

So, really, in the context of the Re story, he's no better than Spencer, Alfred, Alexia, Birkin, Saddler, and any other major Re villians I missed. He just happened to be more cunning and strategic in preserving himself by playing the field right, but that's about it.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

I always saw Wesker as the nerd working in the Research labs living under the shadows of Birkin and Alexia. So when he finally gets some power, he does what every dork would do in such a situation. Think himself beyond reach and untouchable.

[valentinesdead?]

Like I said, they taking that approach didn't really hurt the game for me. Nor do I think Wesker's character arc was really-really bad. I hoped for more character arc development but I can live with what we got. No biggie.

I guess I should clarify that I understand your point. Just stating that the games themselves don't really support something much different than where Wesker headed.

And he certainly started out as the methodical evil genius that manipulated everyone around him. But once he got a little bit of power, he went a bit berserk (Code: Veronica). I think that game has more in common with the Wesker we see in RE5 than with the one we see in the first game or even in the reports.

Yeah, that's more or less true, since they brought him back from the dead He was never ment to actaully be apart of the story again. Or there was never supposed to be a sequel to RE in the first place(look at it now, lol).

Staying calm and collected and in the shadows while things turned in his favor was Wesker's M.O. or at least that's the impression that I got.

Keyword there. Was, hehe.

I just got more attached to that version of Wesker. And expected him to at least outsmart everyone in Umbrella (Spencer, Marcus, Birkin, Alexia, etc.) and have a bigger impact worldwide than any of them ever did (but in the long run). Unless we can get that through his legacy...

In the end, I'd say Wesker did make the biggest impact. He actually did "outsmart" all those you mentioned. Sure he didn't actaully acheive his goal, but if he had--don't think any more RE games would be possible.

I always saw Wesker as the nerd working in the Research labs living under the shadows of Birkin and Alexia. So when he finally gets some power, he does what every dork would do in such a situation. Think himself beyond reach and untouchable.

[/QUOTE]

Can't say I've ever thought of Wesker as a nerd, or working under "Birkin". Wesker's just a cold hearted backstabbin SOB out for himself. Actually, I always got the impression from Wesker's Report 2(and RE0 helps clarify this) these two were "partners in crime," so to speak. They were both super-ambitous. I'd have to say that Birkin would be the actual nerd here, hehe. Idiot was obessed with the G-virus, and yet, it was practically worthless since no G-virus creature has ANY intelligence. But back to my thought, if Birkin and the incident of Raccoon City had never happened, I somehow pictured Wesker and Birkin working toward a grand plan of some sort. Wesker left Umbrella for a reason, afterall. I"m sure Birkin would have, if he'd becomea higher up in Umbrella's bearuacy, been a vauable asset to Wesker as an internal source/spy, and vice-versa whatever corporation Wesker would have joined up with.

Anyways, I think this "over-blown" Wesker examination has run its course, lol. Woo, talk about an analysis!

Cheers.

[valentinesdead?]

[QUOTE=jagger916;123761Anyway thank you valentinesdead? for your in depth analysis. I have thought of Wesker in that way before but never in such length.[/QUOTE]


Thank you for the compliment! I tried to be thorough. I actually learned some things myself from writing all that!

[jagger916]

You're welcome.

[Det. Beauregard]

Heaving, struggling, but utterly helpless, seething at Chris with hatred as he struggles to recomopose himself, because Chris is taking control away from him(again.) I think that small little moment was such a great touch by Capcom, because the mighty, god-like, untouchable Wesker, was reduced, for a moment, to a state of utter patheticness which reveals the real him. His real nature. Just another lunatic, who with nothing to hide behind, is just a plain ole pathetic excuse for a human being. I think the fact he also chose to *bond* with Urobours to fight Chris and Sheva is another piece of proof of that fact. Rather than take Chris on man to man, un-super-powered, he simply won't do that, giving up his actual human form, just for the chance to beat Chris once and for all.

Interesting analysis; very well-thought out.

I still like him better than any other RE villain, though. Although Birkin and Alexia were also really cool...