A Logical Arguement for Why Slow Zombies Might NEVER Return in Resident Evil / Slow z

[Voltius]

I don't think we'll ever see slow moving zombies in games again here's why...

Slow Zombie Formula
(Capcom didn't create Slow zombies on their own, the limitations of hardware and the atmospheric need for pre-rendered backgrounds helped create slow zombies)
- Atmosphere and detail are important in horror, the "then current" technology can't deliver rich detail in 3D so pre-rendered backgrounds are used
- pre-rendered backgrounds limit camera to 3rd person camera angles, player must navigate character by seeing where the character is on screen and what direction they're facing, how far from enemy they are etc...
- if character is too far from camera, it becomes hard to navigate environment, so camera stays close to character as much as possible

- zombies are introduced into the environment
- player can run around slow zombies so environment is made more narrow (mansion, hallways, narrow streets) wide spaces are avoided in favor of narrow hallways and streets forcing the player to interact with zombies
- player can easily shoot zombies from a distance so camera angles are used to visually hide the zombies (also creates atmospheric "I can hear them but can't see them" effect)
- player can run forward, see zombie's visual location, step back and shoot, So to prevent player from easily killing zombies, ammo becomes restricted and shooting speed is lowered, player must now choose which zombies to kill, player will not be able to kill all zombies and MUST leave a few to live
- player can Lure zombies around map to his advantage, so zombie numbers are increased to heighten the sense of urgency, player feels rushed and frantic on which zombies to kill as they all close in on him
- player can shoot down one zombie and run ahead to avoid the others, so game balances this out by making player STOP moving while aiming and shooting, player now has to decide weather to "Fight or Run"
- player can save up a large amount of items and ammo by hoarding these items from areas with little zombies and saving them for use in areas with large amounts of zombies, so game limits the player's inventory space, now player must choose which item to pick up and which to leave behind
- player can still change strategies to combat the zombies so Locked Doors, closed gates and other conflicts are put in place to make player cross the same area multiple times, player now has to intelligently guess weather he'll come through this area more than once or never again and decide weather to kill zombies or avoid them. (players who've memorized the game have no problems with this conflict)

Deep Strategy = unlock areas, unfold story, collect items amidst a sea of zombies, carefully selecting when to run and when to fight, which zombies to shoot and which to leave, weather to use items now or save for later. Requires a lot of long term AND short term strategizing

Fast Enemies Forumula (RE4 + RE5)
- environments are now 3D, static camera angles can be dropped in favor of over the shoulder or first person view cameras
- player can now see and kill enemies from far away, so enemies are made faster and more plentiful
- game changes from Horror to Action, with emphasis on killing as many enemies as possible rather than strategizing
- because fast enemies create hectic moments the player can become mentally exhausted and can "normalize to constant action" ie: without contrast between action and peace player normalizes to action and sees it as boring, example: (ultraviolet, transformers) so game creates "quiet moments" aka calms before the storm where there are NO enemies present OR game gives player enough ammo to kill all enemies in the current environment so he can explore the area for items.
- more ammo is given to player to compensate for mistakes and to encourage killing enemies to clear out areas rather than leaving them behind and getting annoyed by them (fast zombies don't allow player time to collect items so game gives enough ammo to kill off all enemies in environment)
- fast enemies now change game emphasis to "fear of pursuit" instead of "fear of them slowly closing in on you", killing becomes a necessity over strategy
- player can run and gun past enemies so game restricts player from running while shooting, player must now choose to fight or run
- 3D allows for less closed spaces and more open spaces allowing player to shoot enemies, run back, reload, and continue shooting, current gaming trends favor constant action and progress so as not to "bore" the player.
- atmosphere is sacrificed for constant progress, player spends less time back-tracking


Shallow Strategy = instant action over slow burn action, short term strategy over long term strategy, run through areas once rather than back-track aka the game now allows you to Kill anything that moves rather than strategize on what to do.

Slow Zombies in 3D world Formula
- sucks, play Dead Rising and you'll see why, it's fun at first but gets boring fast, it's challenging but there's no fear. The areas were wide open and zombies so plentiful that we just got used to them being there and normalized to them.

How to make Slow Zombies work in a Fast paced 3D world
- introduce slow moving, rotting, gnawing zombies into an atmospheric 3D environment
- environments must be narrow and compartmentalized (lots of doors / hallways / alleys) forcing the player to interact with zombies
- use wide open areas sparingly, wide open areas should have either a LARGE number of spaced out zombies (so player is tricked into weaving around them only to get caught by one or two and have them all close in) or No zombies at all (to create a "where is everyone" creepy atmosphere)
- player can run, shoot, and reload quickly but is heavily restricted of ammo but not of health items, game should compensate it's lack of killing with ability to survive
- player should be allowed to sneak around zombies if he is not in their view (increases tension and "oh god i hope i don't get caught" effect)
- player must be forced to backtrack at least 1 through most environments
- zombies must NOT be distributed equally in all areas. Instead one area should be filled with zombies, the surrounding areas should be void of zombies so as to give the player a place to run and be chased
- zombies MUST have roaming and pursuit abilities, with the ability to slowly follow and relentlessly pursuit a player wherever he goes, across maps, buildings, loading areas, and rooms IF they see him or hear gunshots.
- player can create temporary one-time-use barricades that slow the zombies down (lock doors, bookshelves, couches) for a period of time before they break through, player now has to strategize when to use which barricade
- zombies should behave like they would in the real world, once they're killed their body is always there with a 50% randomized chance that the body will come back to life (increases tension when player returns through same areas)

Strategy = keep moving because they're right behind you. short term and long term strategy, player has speed on his side but zombies are in large numbers

[TheSelfishGene]

I think it's possible to make a 3rd person shooter like RE4/5 scary, and aside from some specific moments, neither was scary. I don't think it has anything to do with zombies. The enemies can be whatever you like, as long as they are somewhat threatening.
So how do you make enemies threatening? You've mostly pointed it out. What was deliberately designed in the early games to work around technical limitations worked in the games favour. Restricted vision, limited health and firepower. But if your enemies are too weak, or not damaging enough, then even with restricted vision and limited health and firepower, the game won't be scary. Look at Dead Rising.

The only point I really disagree with you on is mandatory backtracking. Really goes against what you said earlier with long term strategising. If you have to go through every area again, you'd know you want to kill everything for later, which is what you seem to be against in RE4/5.

A simple way to ger around this is to reward exploration. Easy to do too, just hide ammo and health caches. Or have areas change when you revisit them, like RE3 did.

[randomwab]

Slow zombies can still work, but for what most old school Resident Evil fans want, it'd have to be in the context of the most hardcore game. Sparse ammo, weak guns, low health for the player, tight maps and loose aiming. Basically the Demon's Souls of zombie games. Sadly, I don't think we'll get that game anytime soon.

[Darkmoon]

I gotta admit, I agree with a lot fo what you wrote about how to make zombies work in the new order of things. I've said a few of those things myself more than once. Of course, the main reason I suspect we won't be seeing zombies for a good long while is that the Ganados/Majini make money, lots there of, and Capcom won't stop milking until that cash cow runs dry. Maybe then we'll see a 'return to the old school terror' or some such.

[Vector]

What randomwab said. Slow zombies only work when you're not given a complete arsenal of weaponry and ammunition, and a shopping mall's worth of stuff to arm yourself with, like in RE4 and RE5.

Personally, I prefer the fast-moving zombies/infected to the classic, slow and dopey ones. Left 4 Dead's zombies and 28 Days Later's infected are more scary to me because when they close on you, they close quickly because they can sprint as fast, if not faster than you. The best of the best, though, I would have to say are Crimson Heads from REmake. Those fuckers are scary.

[Voltius]

The only point I really disagree with you on is mandatory backtracking. Really goes against what you said earlier with long term strategising. If you have to go through every area again, you'd know you want to kill everything for later, which is what you seem to be against in RE4/5.

A simple way to ger around this is to reward exploration. Easy to do too, just hide ammo and health caches. Or have areas change when you revisit them, like RE3 did.

You're right. Or limit inventory space and have player go back for a few items, then again RE:Zero tried that and I actually liked the ability to drop items where ever i wanted. I backtracked a lot less but I think it's because I also had Rebecca's inventory space to store stuff.

[Branden_Lucero]

maybe because if you kill one slow ass zombie, then you know how to kill hundreds or even thousands. nothin' much is gonna change, a stale formula is a stale formula.

[Davi Redfield]

maybe because if you kill one slow ass zombie, then you know how to kill hundreds or even thousands. nothin' much is gonna change, a stale formula is a stale formula.

Same can be said about Ganados...

Nice post, Voltius. I agree with you totally.

I guess that there's always a possibility to see old slow zombies back, although it is unlikely...

[Det. Beauregard]

A simple way to ger around this is to reward exploration. Easy to do too, just hide ammo and health caches. Or have areas change when you revisit them, like RE3 did.

I completely agree with this. I've always liked games with "hidden" areas to explore, as it adds replay value, decreases linearity, and rewards the player with weapons, ammo, health items, and the like. I guess my love for it goes all the way back to the original Doom!

I also really like randomization aspects, and I think it worked great in RE3 and RE4 (and to a lesser extent, RE5). I seem to recall the N64 port of RE2 having an item randomization option, as well. Systems like these add a ton of replay value; you never know what you're gonna get!

My recent gripes with many video games (including the RE series) is that they're becoming more and more linear to cater to gamers who only care about experiencing the non-stop, never-a-dull-moment action. This leaves gamers who love tons of exploration and plot (myself included) frustrated and disappointed.

[Bertha]

My recent gripes with many video games (including the RE series) is that they're becoming more and more linear to cater to gamers who only care about experiencing the non-stop, never-a-dull-moment action. This leaves gamers who love tons of exploration and plot (myself included) frustrated and disappointed.

I agree with a lot that has been said, and this especially. I know a lot of people bitched about FFXII being a boring game, but after playing FFXIII, I miss having a sprawling world to explore at my leisure. I think having freedom in a horror game would be great, letting a person wonder if the reward is worth the risk.

I think I've mentioned it before, but part of the problem isn't the monster (zombie/ganado/etc) itself, but rather the character you play as. From Claire and Rebecca to Chris and Leon...everyone in the RE series knew how to use every single weapon they got their hands on. If a character is Normal Jack or Jane that's never even seen a gun outside a police officer's holster, they shouldn't be able to just grab a gun of any type and be able to use it like a seasoned vet. One thing I loved about the Clock Tower series and Haunting Ground/Demento (and even Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit) is that the characters' weapons are very restricted, and a panic meter/element heavily influences a character's actions.

And item storage/use...give characters realistic, heavily limited space, and limit their physical movements if they are over encumbered. Don't let a character like Rebecca be able to tote two handguns, a shotgun, a machine gun, and a bazooka (plus whatever other sundry items like ammo, health, key items) be able to front flip out a window or sprint away at full speed. Esstentially, make a 'hoarder' suffer for it. I'm fine with dropping items and going back for them if the player thinks it is necessary. Also, no gun upgrades, and no vast amounts of ammo.

[Det. Beauregard]

I agree with most of what you said, Rosetta.

If the player character is just a "normal" survivor, they should not have such great firearms expertise right off the bat. Although it might make it a bit too RPG-ish, I think a system with "experience" might work, where your weapons stats improve not with upgrades but with how often you use them. However, it might cause players to seek out enemies just to max out their weapons, which doesn't really fit with the horror vibe.

As far as a more realistic inventory goes, I agree for the most part. I've always been a fan of being able to vary the amount you carry, but with consequences. For example, if you choose to carry a shotgun, an M4, and a sniper rifle, you should move WAY slower, less agile, and louder than if you're only packing a knife and a suppressed handgun.

When it comes to the amount of ammo found throughout the environments, there's always difficulty levels for that.

And as far as rocket launchers go, I've always seen them as extra "fun" weapons to be used. Nothing's scary if you have an RPG with unlimited ammo!

[Dracarys]

Make them all Crimson Heads. ta-da.

[Enrico Marini]

The RE4/RE5 aiming system allowed for headshots, which with slow moving zombies would make them far too easy to kill. At least RE4/5 had the deterrant of the god damn plagas if you destroyed the head sometimes.

I honestly can't see any way of reintroducing the old zombies without changing them drastically, then they won't be the old zombies.

[Darkmoon]

It's not that hard. First of all, a headshot is not a guaranteed kill. That suddenly makes zombies a bit more nasty. Bullets don't always penetrate the skull and even when they do it might hit part of a zombies brain that's no longer functional. Zombies pretty much only need motor control, after all. If people can and do survive headshots, zombies can do it more often.

Secondly, a single zombie is gonna be more dangerous than a Ganado for one simple reason; patience. A zombie won't do anything until something meaty passes by. So they'll stay strapped into a car, relatively quiet, and grab the person walking past the window. They'll stand inside a shop window among the mannequins and attack when they see you. They won't come looking for you, unlike the Ganados, so you're going to get a constant stream of them through an area - and some ambush attacks.

Then, you throw in nastier variations...Crimson Heads, dogs, etc. Things you need to kill before the zombies, but while you're killing those the zombies are getting closer and closer. And some zombies can move pretty damned fast. Plus, they don't stop a few feet away and look pointless. They'll keep comming at whatever speed they're set to.

Done right, zombies could work I reckon. It's Capcom doing it right that bothers me.

[Branden_Lucero]

Same can be said about Ganados...

Nice post, Voltius. I agree with you totally.

I guess that there's always a possibility to see old slow zombies back, although it is unlikely...

yep. which is why RE is going to be the next boned horror series. doesn't matter what you do to it, someone's never gonna be happy except capcom.