Biohazard 1 Beta,08/04/1995 (read post #100)

[Anders]

Yeah, I'm sure people are furious about not getting an outdated version of a 15-year old game,

People ARE whining, in this very thread!

with its two unused items that surely were so essential to the title, they would have doubled the sales had they been left in.

You know that that's not the point.


Anyway, the RE community fucked itself in the ass (when it comes to getting betas [at a reasonable price]) years ago. Though I guess you can't really blame people for being excited.

[nemesiswontdie]

Anyway, the RE community fucked itself in the ass (when it comes to getting betas [at a reasonable price]) years ago.

How so?

[Anders]

How so?

I suppose it's no different to any other comparably popular franchises. They all have their rabid fanbases. But Bio 1.5 has become one of the more legendary titles when it comes to prototypes.

Simply put it has been given too much attention.

It's too valuable to share (not only 1.5, but any considerably different RE proto). Even if you didn't consider your monetary loss by releasing a proto, it's a wasted opportunity. You need it to trade for other betas, as most people won't give stuff up for free even if you did just that. And when you've done that, say you've traded 1.5 for 3.5 or whatever (to be extreme), and you don't care about the money.. do you release both the protos you have aquired? In that case, you screw the guy you traded with royally over, as he can't use any of his now two rare protos for further trades.

Showing stuff off like R_K and this JC guy generally doesn't help. Then comes the whiners and the whole circus. Protos are best left hidden quietly away in a dark corner, UNTIL they hit the net, suddenly.

And from that comes the accusations about elitism and such... But the truth is that the public can't handle protos!


Though I'm sure that one day good stuff will hit the net. There ARE good people out there, and some wonderful day things will work out. Let's hope, anyway.


And let me finish with this:
Q: What is the best way to get people to release protos?
A: You flame them and attack their character until they hate you so much that they just release it.

[VirusPunk]

Why would you hope that nobody wants to release it? No offense, but that sounds very rude. There is a big difference between someone who wants to release something, and someone who just simply can't release something. There ARE people who have paid a lot for prototypes and betas, and have leaked them. Although I do understand your situation regarding the beta. You are not the original owner, and you don't want to get anyone in trouble. I can appreciate that. It's just that it sounds like, from what you just said, that you don't want anyone having the beta. Personally, as I said before, I could care less about this beta, since it's just some minor things, and I'm much more interested in 1.5.

I understand and respect your decision. I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble either. But that being said, if you happened to obtain 1.5, you wouldn't release that either. So what good is it whenever somebody obtains a damn beta and won't leak it?

You hit the nail on the head there. Exactly my point.

Robert Kendo doesn't want this beta released at all from him or anyone else, at least that's what I've gathered by reading his posts. But then again, his English is poor so maybe we're just misunderstanding his real meaning here?

If he would've said; "I don't think anyone should release this beta if it means getting into legal trouble". That would've been fine.

So let me get this straight, everyone here would much rather receive "information" about this beta rather than playing it? Doesn't make any sense to me, but like I said before it's the forums majority rule here. I personally would much rather play it than get information about it. If he can't release it though, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone here anymore as no one listens to me anyway from my point of view.

He just came across as a selfish douche with his wordings. Perhaps he meant to say something else or put it in a different way? I don't know.

While this beta may not be as interesting as 1.5, it still would be great to play regardless. Closer to 1.5 than this community has ever gotten. Whatever, doesn't matter to me anymore anyway. He's already made up his mind, and I can't force him to release it since this is the Internet.

Though I'm going to ask this one question: What would happen to the original owner who sold Robert a copy? Isn't that breaking some sort of contract rule and grounds for legal trouble? It's a serious question, not to flame or insult anyone here.

[Anders]

1. So let me get this straight, everyone here would much rather receive "information" about this beta rather than playing it?

2. He just came across as a selfish douche with his wordings. Perhaps he meant to say something else or put it in a different way? I don't know.

3. Though I'm going to ask this one question: What would happen to the original owner who sold Robert a copy? Isn't that breaking some sort of contract rule and grounds for legal trouble? It's a serious question, not to flame or insult anyone here.

1. Obviously not. But it doesn't really help to beg for it, no matter if R_K has "legit" motives or not for not sharing.

2. I agree, he came off as a show-off. *Look what I got that you don't have!* As you, I'm unsure if that was his meaning... Could have been handled better anyway.

3. The actual disc is stolen property. If it was sent to a magazine, it was supposed to be returned to Capcom/ their publisher/ PR agency. If it was an internal Capcom disc, some employee picked it up and made some money. If this could be tracked down to that person, he could be fired and all that stuff. Legal troubles beyond being fired, I don't know. Maybe not for this, but for a recent game currently in production? Yep.

[OKeijiDragon]

3. The actual disc is stolen property. If it was sent to a magazine, it was supposed to be returned to Capcom/ their publisher/ PR agency. If it was an internal Capcom disc, some employee picked it up and made some money. If this could be tracked down to that person, he could be fired and all that stuff.

I'm curious here. How would it get tracked back to the original owner? Is there a particularly-made NDA or something?

[Zombie_X]

I'm curious here. How would it get tracked back to the original owner? Is there a particularly-made NDA or something?

I'm thinking they were assigned or noted down to who the disc was handed out to. They could also check to see who had last accessed the disc.

There are many way to track people down.

[BrionIrons]

1. Obviously not. But it doesn't really help to beg for it, no matter if R_K has "legit" motives or not for not sharing.

2. I agree, he came off as a show-off. *Look what I got that you don't have!* As you, I'm unsure if that was his meaning... Could have been handled better anyway.

3. The actual disc is stolen property. If it was sent to a magazine, it was supposed to be returned to Capcom/ their publisher/ PR agency. If it was an internal Capcom disc, some employee picked it up and made some money. If this could be tracked down to that person, he could be fired and all that stuff. Legal troubles beyond being fired, I don't know. Maybe not for this, but for a recent game currently in production? Yep.

That was 1995,how do you even know if that so called person that leaked Bio 1 Beta is even still working there.that was almost 15 years ago.and even if capcom knew if someone has a beta,they can careless because they are making money off new titles.look at biohazard 2 beta 2.its leaked all over the net and capcom still didn't react to it and even if they fired the person who leaked bio 2 beta.Its still leaked.It can be downloaded anywhere.Capcom has taken no action to remove all downloads of bio 2 beta 2.

[rewak]

BrionIrons, did you read what i posted? The story of the Bio2 beta goes employee fired, employee pissed, leaked beta, found out and blacklisted so he can't work in the industry again. It's not just about getting in trouble with the company that made the game, it's about the entire industry. Granted the Bio2 beta was leaked very close to the release date so it was still on the companies radar at the time, leaking an old game doesn't have much impact on anything but that doesn't mean there aren't big risks.

[Carnivol]

It's called not taking unnecessary risks and doing certain things one step at a time.


If something has not existed in public light for a looooong time, chances are that it's because very few people have access to it (or no one has it). The fewer people has something, the easier it is to keep track of who has it. If it should pop up in public circulations, you'd know exactly where to start pointing fingers. Heck, I'm sure that every now and then someone gets incorrectly accused of committing a crime, only because he/she is the only known person to have access to certain types of information (but someone somehow found a different source or a way around it).


As for Biohazard 2 Beta v2; It can be bought on Hong Kong silvers and at CD-R stands in in almost every Asian country where you find people selling pirated PlayStation games on the streets. It's a case of the damage already being done and way outside of what anyone can control. It's also not good to tell when this thing happened (I remember seeing what was probably "it" on mail order lists around the millennium shift, at least. So it might've first popped up Post-release.)

The everlasting internet rumor mill has countless tall tales about the origins of V2, where it came from and what happened to the source. Anything from a Capcom staff member who lost his job (and was sued), to a gaming magazine journalist who got into big legal trouble (and ultimately lost his job). All of them have one common element, and that's how the person's reputation was totally ruined and all people who worked/shared with him cut their ties, as they realized they couldn't trust him.


Also, since I like using proper samples every now and then;
Man faces five years jail time after caught downloading Breach code off Xbox 360 test kit
Sure, this guy was blatantly caught "in action" while doing such a thing, for a new/unreleased game, etc... but the fact is; what he did is more or less the same you're more or less suggesting Robert_Kendo should now do. (One might say by acquiring it from someone, and posting about it publically, Robert_Kendo has already done more than just that one crime too. So why add salt to the wound by potentially making it even worse?)

Sure, that might've been a bit extreme!

Anyway, THIA has never gotten in trouble for any of the stuff we've posted about in the past (nor do I think it'll be so in the future either). But we've always been careful with what we put out and how we do it. To ensure that it's actually "safe" and that neither us nor our sources are in any form for danger if we actually show something.

Anyway, back on track! For those who're wondering why this is so "bad" ... well, it's 'cause it's not just simple piracy/thievery of the type you read about in the media every day. It's actually what's usually qualified as Industrial Espionage if tried in a court of law. Maybe an unfair comparison, but it was the first hit I got on google when just looking for something to give you guys a rough idea; Fresh case of someone being sentenced in an industrial espionage case. A mighty fine sentence he got there.

Of course, that's a slightly "bigger" case, for sure. So you gotta scale things back a bit, but then you gotta remember to scale things up again as the difference between the two cases would be that you're making potential industrial secrets "public knowledge" rather than "only" giving them to a single competing client.

[Darkmoon]

Robert Kendo doesn't want this beta released at all from him or anyone else, at least that's what I've gathered by reading his posts. But then again, his English is poor so maybe we're just misunderstanding his real meaning here?

If he would've said; "I don't think anyone should release this beta if it means getting into legal trouble". That would've been fine.

So let me get this straight, everyone here would much rather receive "information" about this beta rather than playing it? Doesn't make any sense to me, but like I said before it's the forums majority rule here. I personally would much rather play it than get information about it. If he can't release it though, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone here anymore as no one listens to me anyway from my point of view.

He just came across as a selfish douche with his wordings. Perhaps he meant to say something else or put it in a different way? I don't know.

While this beta may not be as interesting as 1.5, it still would be great to play regardless. Closer to 1.5 than this community has ever gotten. Whatever, doesn't matter to me anymore anyway. He's already made up his mind, and I can't force him to release it since this is the Internet.

Though I'm going to ask this one question: What would happen to the original owner who sold Robert a copy? Isn't that breaking some sort of contract rule and grounds for legal trouble? It's a serious question, not to flame or insult anyone here.

Well, to clarify, Kendo is saying the reason he won't release the whole thing is because he isn't the original owner and it would royally shaft whoever that is. Which is the morally better path and the smarter one too...if Kendo did fuck the guy over it would be difficult in the extreme for him to get another beta.

And of course, we'd rather play it. I'd love to have a look at it. I'd love for guys like MarkGrass to take it apart and find any delicious beta information tucked away.. But if I have a choice between a few videos, some of the files and the like or nothing at all? I'll take the information and be happy for it.

The problem here has been that you and some others are angry that all he's willing to share is information...which I'd agree with if he'd teased a release, but he's point blank said he won't release it. He spent money on it, used his contacts to obtain it and takes the legal risks that come with it. He owes jack. Now, you can say he's wagging his e-penis by doing stuff like this. Frankly, my merry mutants, I don't give a damn. We're still getting new information and if he wants to take pride in that, let him.

Also, this kinda reaction? Doesn't exactly help anyone. You do realize that this reaction makes the release of both beta information and betas themselves far less likely, right? If, as an extreme example, someone got hold of 1.5 but cannot release it...so decides to release a complete video playthrough of both scenarios. It's the most they can do legally, but you guys scream and yell about what bastards they are for not releasing the game even though they can't and we're suddenly out of the biggest windfall of 1.5 data we could ever hope of short of the game itself.

...one of you, please explain how that is a good thing to me? Sure, I'd rather have the game, but as an acceptable second place prize a walkthrough of the scenarios is pretty damned high on my wishlist.

And people are far less likely to sell a beta to anyone RE related because of the drama this sorta thing kicks up. They don't wanna deal with this sorta stuff, or the hate the Curator got. Or to have there valuable shit leaked. Which really, really doesn't help someone in the community trying to get it. They either get the stigmata of being one of us or try and hide and loose trust if they're ever found out.

[Enrico Marini]

No offense but I think this is a good example as to why, if you are only going to supply information, I feel it should be done anonamously. Simply because even if it wasn't ment as as being "look what I've got, no you can't have it" Elitism, saying a few posts after that "I can't/won't release", it kind of gives that impression as it gets peoples hopes up.

Sad thing is I'd love to get my hands on the files to rip them apart and make the unused content work with the PC version of RE1. More than likely the Co-op Chris and Jill contain their model data.

As a side note if no one else has noticed but:

1) Cerberus is completely different (and does not seem to appear anywhere in the Prototype). It is not as fleshy and eaten as the final Cerberus. Less pink more furry.

2) The Lab Zombie has more hair and its curlier. Note also the heads Unwrap is different.
There is no Crown unwrap.

3) Hunters have veins all over their body instead of just being green.

4) A big one for me, the two player characters, Char10 and 11, do not have the weapons textures embedded yet the weapons are textured in game. Also worth noting that Chris doesn't have his full knee pads (looks like he is missing the lower portion) and jills face is that of the Co-Op Jill.

5) obvious Yawn is obvious. The giant pink trouser snake.

6) The Prototype's White Tiger Tarantula is there, with a better Baby Spider texture, also the Boss Spiders underside texture for its "head" is missing, making me assume the the top side is duplicated to the bottom (i.e. eyes on both sides).

7) Would point out the eaten Kenneth is different. Again Captain Obvious strikes.

8) Both the Crow and Standard Spider look completed. As in like the final versions.

[Guest]

It's just that most people are not aware of all the stuff going on in the background. I've always approached the whole beta stuff with kind of a "can't hurt to ask" loodidoo attitude and asked Mark if I could get these 3.5 TPL files if I don't upload them. The basic digest of the reply I got back was about betraying trusts and suggesting my associates or something to buy it themselves. It felt protectionist, like a wasps' nest, if that's what a few files from a video game can cause, then it's better not to get involved with any of it. There's bad things going on, it all just screams kapitalisticheskij and mafia, it's the even dirtier subscene of a community 99% comprised of very inane, violent and frightening people, handing out death threats for unimportant stuff like that. It just isn't talked about much.

[Carnivol]

One day we'll hopefully be rid of the whole "elitist" thing

At the end of the day, when it comes to these sorts of things, let's pretend we're all sitting on the swings in 3rd grade;

Your best friend finally lends you his favorite toy! This under the impression that you'll treat it carefully and not break it or share it with anyone...

Do you then just let some random stranger take it home for the weekend just 'cause he/she asked?

I mean, you know that if your best friend finds out, he'll not only be very upset, but he'll also might not want to invite you to his birthday party next week! Not to mention how he'll probably think twice about letting you borrow anything from him again.


At the end of the day, be thankful for what you get and what you see. There are some people who spend a lot of time trying to dig out stuff like this. Heck! Often there are also large sums of money involved. Sums so ridiculously large that I bet pretty much anyone could list hundreds of better ways to spend it. Sometimes there are limitations imposed on the deals being made, and more often than never there are rules to be followed; but can't we at least all agree to it being better than nothing and show a little bit of gratitude for what we get?

[Anders]

That was 1995,how do you even know if that so called person that leaked Bio 1 Beta is even still working there.that was almost 15 years ago.

I was answering VirusPunk's general question of what could happen when any proto is leaked. He probably doesn't work "there" anymore, in this case. It doesn't matter though, that's not the reason why R_K can't share it.


Discs are often numbered, and it's recorded who receives which disc. Obviously, leaking such a disc won't harm the original source, unless the leaker was stupid enough to put up a scan of the disc.

But often they are also digitally watermarked.
Which can be removed with modern technology, of course.