Betas, breasts and the making of Resident Evil 5

[Alzaire]

I'm sorry but I still can't believe people feel the need to justify Jill's RE3 outfit from a "logical" standpoint when I believe Capcom's track record with their designs and statements make it plainly obvious her outfit was almost completely designed for city girl sex appeal. Even from a girl who's personal clothing experience claims a justification, the arguments just don't really hold enough water. I don't think the arguments are total bunk and far-fetched, just like I also believe her outfit isn't total "cheep hooker" either. But still, I don't buy into it because I have similar experience as Enetirnel as I was in the boy scouts for about 9 years until my grandfather passed away. I would definitely agree that wearing baggy clothes and such are obvious bad ideas, but the way Enetirnel describes things then everyone might as well run around naked with a few rubber bands tightly holding a keycard to your leg or arm. I did a lot of similar things like repelling, hiking, climbing, and even in the southern US during the summer when, yes, it got pretty hot and sweaty, I personally never felt so bothered by my clothing that I wanted to strip down to the bare minimum just because it would be the most efficient and "comfortable." The problem stems from the issue that the defense are relying too much on too deep, situational "tacticality" and (personal) comfortability (not to mention Jill defense forces that would find ways to justify if Jill murdered a hundred babies).

Jill is smart and I'm sure she has her own tastes in clothes, but I think many of the arguments for her attire don't stand up within their own arguments. A bit of comfortability needs to be sacrificed for personal safety and base tactics. She was a police officer and ex-Delta Force, she should be used to tactical gear and decisions, and she even has experience with the zombies and such already. Let's address a few things then.

- Baggy clothes are not good. Agreed.
- 'Hot weather, long clothes, shirts, ect. get wet, tough to move in, aren't comfortable. ect' This one is being perceived too much from a general standpoint. The points are somewhat valid, but they are also being perceived from sports or recreational activities.

-Clothes can get snagged, can't shimmy into tight spaces, ect. Understandable, to a degree. As said before, obvious baggy clothes would be stupid, but more fitting clothes should be more acceptable. It's one of the tradeoffs that would probably be better to make in an RE type situation. In every-day life with sports and stuff, it makes less of a difference. But if you're moving through tight spaces and snaggy objects that much, then you're really gonna be in trouble either way. In a regular situation, a few scrapes and cuts from wearing less clothing probably won't hurt or affect you much. In a t-virus infected city, it would probably be more wise to protect against cuts and scrapes as best you can with some fitted clothing. I'd much rather a zombie rip my shirt or scratch on some leather, then have immediate access straight to bare shoulders, legs, back, arms, ect. and scratch open flesh and infect me. "oh but if you're wearing clothes or gear, they could grab them and hold on or that fence could snag on your pants!" well, yeah, but good lord you might as well go naked if you're gonna be that paranoid of your clothing screwing you over rather than sensible defense.

Avoiding enemies and such is a smart idea sure, but Jill isn't a regular girl where that's the only option. While we can't really know the true range of her thoughts, it should be expected that not only is she willing to help out anyone she might come across if she can, she -knows- she is going to have to fight almost certainly many times before she escapes the city whether it coincides with the helping of others or not. She should have some gear to prepare her for this kind of combat and expectation. Jill's smart, but she's also a fighter. She has no legitimate excuse for her attire considering the overall situation. I can understand the arguments made for her attire under general situation and specific situations, but they really don't hold up under the broad view as to -Jill- herself and the full situation. Sure, -you- may be more comfortable in her clothes, -you- might 'understand' them under specific arguments, but -you- are also not Jill Valentine and (likely) have not trained in tactical gear, trained in combat, experienced combat, experienced a t-virus outbreak, ect. She's used to that kind of stuff. So while the absolute bare minimum might be understandable or good for some of ya'll, she has enough experience to know it would be in her overall best interest to protect herself/body and how to dress for it and be comfortable doing so.

Otherwise, why don't we all just outfit our police and soldiers in mini-skirts and boobtubes (and full topless and tight undies for the males, to be fair) in areas of warm weather? Would make chasing those bad guys easier, and jumping those fences after those bad guys less to get snagged on, more comfy and all that. Wait, no, that would be retarded. Raccoon City is a combat zone. She may be wanting to get out of there ASAP, sure, but it's still a damn combat zone. This isn't rock climbing or a recreational jog through the park. The situation requires more than what Jill's RE3 outfit is. It was chosen purely for sex appeal.

[News Bot]

She's not an average young woman...she's ex Delta Force.

She isn't Delta Force at all, actually. She just took part in a Delta Force training program.

And again, her attire is unlikely to have been planned. She appears to have just had those clothes on at the time the shit hit the fan. I believe the beta prologue images actually show her before and after the outbreak in her top, skirt and a large coat that she threw away (wisely).

[Guest]

hi guis zo do you tink the jill woud be alive wiht shirt& shorts
i dont'

i tink her boobies savved her

[MeganGrass]

OK.

I think we can all agree on two things:

1) The developers' may have had sex appeal inmind. Afterall, sex sells.

2) One must wear the proper attire to survive a zombie outbreak. Whether it be army materials, or something that leaves nothing to a fanboys [perverse] imagination.

Must. Get. Out. Alive! By whatever means necessary.

[News Bot]

hi guis zo do you tink the jill woud be alive wiht shirt& shorts
i dont'

i tink her boobies savved her

hey guy\ not guna listen im rite

That what you meant to say?

One thing to consider is, do you honestly think Jill would be wearing the tube/skirt combo if the game was set in, I dunno, winter? It's pretty obvious that sex appeal wasn't the only influence behind the design. Its more like:

No longer police officer -> Civilian -> Civilian clothes -> Hot weather -> HOT WEATHER!? OMG SKIN

I suppose the female zombie in BH2 was the second best ho in town. amirite?

Honestly the fear of skin is kind of disturbing. Even the U.B.C.S. are dressed pretty light. Carlos and Murphy in particular. Their lightweight designs even carry over to Outbreak.

[Darkmoon]

She isn't Delta Force at all, actually. She just took part in a Delta Force training program.

Fair enough, but for the purposes of the argument, not especially relevant. She's still got that training, plus the combat and technical skills to be a S.T.A.R.S member. Niether of these suggests she's exactly lacking in tactical and combat experience and training.

And again, her attire is unlikely to have been planned. She appears to have just had those clothes on at the time the shit hit the fan. I believe the beta prologue images actually show her before and after the outbreak in her top, skirt and a large coat that she threw away (wisely).

I, personally, feel it's very odd that she had no idea what was happening. The Outbreak was fast, but Jill wasn't stupid. I hope we can all at least agree on that. I find it very unlikely that she didn't understand what the initial reports of the odd attackers meant, which if I recall started happening several days before the larger scale attacks of the outbreak proper started occuring. The U.B.C.S were sent in on 26th, the same day that Marvin was still looking into the theft and vandalism of that clock. The signs were there, for someone who was looking. I think we should assume Jill would be looking.

Plus, the beta stuff doesn't help two fold...one, if it's so hot she does she have such a coat on? And two, it's beta. And therefore not cannon.

[News Bot]

Fair enough, but for the purposes of the argument, not especially relevant. She's still got that training, plus the combat and technical skills to be a S.T.A.R.S member. Niether of these suggests she's exactly lacking in tactical and combat experience and training.

The major mistake most people are making here though is thinking any of that actually matters. She isn't John Matrix or the Terminator. They're just clothes.

I, personally, feel it's very odd that she had no idea what was happening. The Outbreak was fast, but Jill wasn't stupid. I hope we can all at least agree on that. I find it very unlikely that she didn't understand what the initial reports of the odd attackers meant, which if I recall started happening several days before the larger scale attacks of the outbreak proper started occuring. The U.B.C.S were sent in on 26th, the same day that Marvin was still looking into the theft and vandalism of that clock. The signs were there, for someone who was looking. I think we should assume Jill would be looking.

Plus, the beta stuff doesn't help two fold...one, if it's so hot she does she have such a coat on? And two, it's beta. And therefore not cannon.

The monster reports come in during August. The outbreak occurs on September 23/24. NOBODY knew it was coming save for Annette Birkin. Jill's only reason for actually being in the city was to investigate the underground laboratory, not the monsters. The outbreak caught her off guard just as much as the survivors in Outbreak.

And the last part is a pretty straw argument. lol. Seriously, lets not go into the specifics of the weather.

[Guest]

Seriously, I think some people here would greatly benefit from not glorifying/wallowing in every single turd this series has shat out sometime in the past.

[News Bot]

Seriously, I think some people here would greatly benefit from not glorifying/wallowing in every single turd this series has shat out sometime in the past.

Hey guys you don't agree with my cynically anal views you're clearly delusional.

EDIT: Ironic thing? I never said sex appeal was not a factor. Just that it wasn't the only factor. But if you really think a tube top or a skirt makes someone look like a hooker, either you have a very prudish view on sex appeal or are just cynically warped over hatred for female skin.

[Darkmoon]

The major mistake most people are making here though is thinking any of that actually matters. She isn't John Matrix or the Terminator. They're just clothes.

That's not striclty true. Clothes can enhance or decrease the chances of survival. Otherwise, why does the govement spend millons comming up with the latest in unforms? Why not just give everyone a black shirt with there unit on, some black pants, and some shoes? In this situation, baggy clothes would be foolish, because, as mentioned, they can get hooked or grabbed too easily. Equally, I feel, exposing so much skin to bites is a mistake. I feel a comfortble middle is where things should have been.

The monster reports come in during August. The outbreak occurs on September 23/24. NOBODY knew it was coming save for Annette Birkin. Jill's only reason for actually being in the city was to investigate the underground laboratory, not the monsters. The outbreak caught her off guard just as much as the survivors in Outbreak.

I still find this unlikely. But let's say she is caught, completely off guard, miles away from her apartment and completely unprepared...except for her handgun. Why didn't she simply loot a shop for something more suitable?

And the last part is a pretty straw argument. lol. Seriously, lets not go into the specifics of the weather.

Well, no. People are arguing that the weather is the reason for her clothes. Yet she's wearing the outfit, meant to keep her cool, with a fuck off great coat. Plus, I'm English. I always talk about the weather.

[Smiley]

I think it is. A 24-years-old police woman does not dress like a hooker, even if the weather allows for it.

Debra Morgan anyone? For all you know she's undercover!

...okay I'm joking...

But let's be real. I joke about the obvious fanservice of her RE3 attire, but it isn't out of place to think Jill wears that. Yes, when on missions she dresses for the occasion with her STARS or BSAA gear. But we've never really seen many STARS or BSAA members outside of a mission. Maybe epilogue pics and such, but very few of them.

Jill's a woman who doesn't mind dressing sexy. Her casual attire isn't out of place and just reflects on her wanting to look good. Even trained men and women still go out and have fun when they're not on the job. The thing that stands out for me isn't the tube top or miniskirt but rather the boots. If she was really trying to lure men in her hotel room for a $50 rub n' tug then she would probably be wearing high heels would she not? But the boots are probably more comfortable for her. They also help identity that military trained side of her. The white sweater as well implies that if the weather gets cold she always has that to bundle up to...not many lady of the nights are going to cover up.....

So we've established how Jill dresses in her spare time. Does dressing in a tube top and miniskirt benefit during a biohazard outbreak? I don't think so, but remember this was an unexpected outbreak. This is a case of bad timing rather than bad taste.

If you really want to know which character is a ho in the RE universe you have to look at Ada Wong.

We know in RE2 she was the sleeper spy who manipulated John for her work. We know in RE4 that during her retrieval mission Ada chose to wear a red dress and high heels. Fanservice that doesn't fit in....she can't captivate the minds of the infected ganados or fit in to the environment with such attire....she just needs to meet her contact and get the sample.

And by Boondocks standards Ada fits the definition of Ho by the following.

1. She runs really fast in high heels.
2. She dodges a man in a purple suit.

Play chapter 5 of Separate Ways and you'll see what I mean.

[News Bot]

That's not striclty true. Clothes can enhance or decrease the chances of survival. Otherwise, why does the govement spend millons comming up with the latest in unforms? Why not just give everyone a black shirt with there unit on, some black pants, and some shoes? In this situation, baggy clothes would be foolish, because, as mentioned, they can get hooked or grabbed too easily. Equally, I feel, exposing so much skin to bites is a mistake. I feel a comfortble middle is where things should have been.

Yes I know that. But you're implying that she has a tactical military uniform lying around. She's a civilian. And canonically, she is never bitten. In the Biohazard universe, you're dead if you're bitten. I doubt she cared about the prospect of being bitten since once she was, she was as good as dead anyway. Why bother worrying about it more than actually preventing it? A zombie with superhuman strength and vitality is going to bite its way through anything once it grabs you so why the fuck bother pondering about whether a leather or denim jacket is going to prevent them in any way? Because it won't at all.

I still find this unlikely. But let's say she is caught, completely off guard, miles away from her apartment and completely unprepared...except for her handgun. Why didn't she simply loot a shop for something more suitable?

Zombies everywhere dude. Why put yourself in such a spot where you can be easily surrounded and imprisoned? Why do the survivors in Outbreak not slip into anything more comfortable at any time? They were in the city for just as long as Jill.

Well, no. People are arguing that the weather is the reason for her clothes. Yet she's wearing the outfit, meant to keep her cool, with a fuck off great coat. Plus, I'm English. I always talk about the weather.

Its a fact that the hot weather is the reason for her specific choice of clothing (apart from sex appeal), but y'know, it isn't hot every day of the year. Less so at night (which is when the picture is set, if I remember correctly).

[Smiley]

The problem with most of the ideas behind why she would wear such an outfit are they don't really hold up when looked at it slightly more detail.

1 - Jill had no idea the zombies were comming until it was too late. She was caught out, away from home, and couldn't get changed.

This seems...very unlikely. The S.T.A.R.S members were aware of the potential for an outbreak from monsters that escaped the Arklay Mansion. Even though she was suspended from the R.P.D, I doubt she wasn't getting information from friends there, as well as other sources.

It doesn't speak well that a trained former Delta Force member was caught so completely off guard. And if she was caught off guard, why was she carrying her gun? Why didn't she break into a clothes shop and get better gear?

2 - It's hot and the clothes are comfortable.

I'm told they're not actually that comfortable, since a boob tube needs to be fairly tight to avoid slipping down or popping out. And mini skirts aren't brilliant either. But here's the best argument against...zombie bites are a hell of a lot less comfortable than getting sweaty. Thick material, like leather or denim, might even stop a bite long enough for you to get away. And some jeans amd a jacket aren't gonna slow you down. Knee high boots aren't nearly as comfortable as decent running shoes, or as fast, yet the hot sweaty boots are what she's wearing. So I think we can assume 'comfort' was not the reason.

#1. They weren't aware of another outbreak coming. After RE1 they destroyed the mansion and with it the evidence. You also have to take into account that Umbrella likely had a sweep team out to destroy the evidence in Raccoon Forest. All that happens in Raccoon City is the result of a different outbreak altogether months later.

And while the plan was to take out Umbrella's base in Europe, Chris was the only one who left for that. Barry got his family to safety. Jill stayed in Raccoon City. Jill resigned from STARS as well and likely turned over her uniform. We know she turned over her STARS ID card anyways. We can't assume that she cornered herself and padded everything to prepare for the inevitable apocalypse. All she has at the start of the game is herself and her gun. So yeah, after a few months the outbreak hits and she is caught off guard.

And yes, even the delta trained can be caught off guard. This isn't limited to zombie outbreaks...... ;>_>

#2. It depends. Some women do find them comfortable...maybe not in a zombie outbreak, but that's not influenced on her decision to wear it before the outbreak hit. I previously brought up the sweater and boots. Both addressing her choice in what might fit the weather and what feels comfortable.

[Darkmoon]

Yes I know that. But you're implying that she has a tactical military uniform lying around. She's a civilian. And canonically, she is never bitten. In the Biohazard universe, you're dead if you're bitten. I doubt she cared about the prospect of being bitten since once she was, she was as good as dead anyway. Why bother worrying about it more than actually preventing it? A zombie with superhuman strength and vitality is going to bite its way through anything once it grabs you so why the fuck bother pondering about whether a leather or denim jacket is going to prevent them in any way? Because it won't at all.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall it every being said that zombies are superhumanly strong. As far as I'm aware, a zombie has the same muscles as the human they once were, at least until they mutate further. And most humans can't quickly knaw all the way through a denim jacket. It's not body armour, no, but if a zombie steps out from behind door number 2 and tries to take a bite out of your shoulder it might be enough time to get them off you.

I doubt she was unconcerned about being bitten. That is, after all, the point of her trying to survive. As I said, if she was in a wide open space I'd agree that mobility is the best option. Mobility doesn't help nearly as much in a city like Raccoon though. It's no good against a zombie lurking behind that bathroom door. Mobility is important, it's true. But so is protection. I believe everything we know about Jill, including her training, would suggest that to her as well.

She may not be currently employed by the RPD at the start of the game, but that hardly makes her a civllian. I'm sure she has survival training, among other things. A skirt and shirt with a total of no pockets for carrying stuff and offering no protection at all don't, really, qualify.

Zombies everywhere dude. Why put yourself in such a spot where you can be easily surrounded and imprisoned? Why do the survivors in Outbreak not slip into anything more comfortable at any time? They were in the city for just as long as Jill.

How would they know? None of them have the same level of training as Jill does. And none of them are wearing as little as she does, either. Most of them are wearing some kinda coat or jacket.

And yes, it's a risk to go into a shop and grab a jacket. Equally, it's a risk to open that door. Or walk down that alley. It's a risk to enter a gunshop too. The decision is where the risk outweights the potential benefit. I think additional protection might qualify, but you may disagree.

Its a fact that the hot weather is the reason for her specific choice of clothing (apart from sex appeal), but y'know, it isn't hot every day of the year. Less so at night (which is when the picture is set, if I remember correctly).

The temperature just doesn't work for me. Again, look at the Outbreak cast. Coat, jacket, jacket...I think the only ones on short sleeves, even, are Cindy and Kevin. If it's so hot that Jill needs to wear a boob tube and skirt (and nice, hot, sweaty boots rather than running shoes) then why aren't they slowly roasting alive? None of them seem terribly uncomfortable.

[Smiley]

And again, a tube top isn't exactly as scandalous as you make it out to be, especially in hot weather. Same with a skirt. I dread to wonder if you've ever actually seen a girl in shorts and a bikini before if you're seriously so uppity about Jill's clothes. Going by your logic, almost every female in the summer is a ho.

Actually I have this friend who always plays pranks, and one of them is to have our neighbor's kid pose as his son and when we're all out at the lake he goes to women sun tanning in a bikini and tells them to cover up because they look like little whores and he doesn't want his son to be looking at them.