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[MeganGrass]

Keep in mind most of the bands that wear facepaint/masks were in their teens and early 20's when they started so you can't really blame them.

Good point. Some habits are... uh... hard to break. ;)

And if I'm not mistaken, weren't you a huge fan of Marilyn Manson a while back?

I still am, however, I don't really like anything past 'Mechanical Animals'. Though I gotta point out, Manson has stated all-too-many times that his work is art, in shock form. Atleast he admits it, and I appreciate that. I guess I just got burnt by these commercial bands claiming one thing, while obvious and simultaneously being something completely different (fake).

It's the whole "I don't care what anyone thinks" attitude that appeals to me, wearing facepaint applies to that statement since I don't care if people choose to know what I really look like.

Same applies to me, aswell -- in almost every aspect of life, music included. I don't like any ideals concerning conformity.

Since you put it that way, I understand the whole facepaint/mask thing. If you just don't give a fuck, you just don't give a fuck. Plain and simple.

In Rap, artists flash guns in their videos and try to look tough. Pop singer Lady Gaga attempts to shock by wearing outrageous clothing as well.

Not all rap artists. Some rappers literally live and die by the gun -- it's all they've ever known, and they try to make the best of it by expressing themselves, musically. Others are simply wannabe fakes. And GaGa? I wouldn't put it past her. But then again, as mentioned before, some people just don't give a damn -- maybe she likes wearing that crap and doesn't care what other people think. Who knows?

But again, I get where you're coming from.

Though I will say, a good number of people I know are indeed actually offended by their appearances. You may laugh and think it's shit, but you would be surprised by how many people there are that actually take offense when seeing these musicians in their "shock" gear.

Well, people are naturally afraid of what "they don't know", so yet again, I get ya. I forgot to put what I know/ego aside, and remember that fact...

If that particular interest doesn't appeal to you, then fine. You're not under any obligation to like it.

Very true, but I don't think you believe me when I say that I truely appreciate music, in all forms. The Music. Not the message(s).

I myself despise organized religion especially in the form of Christianity and have seen first hand what religion and false teachings can do. I used to be a Christian myself years ago, and the only thing I have ever witnessed within the church is greed, false teachings, and brainwashing.

Unfortunately, I have aswell. Which is why I don't attend church. If I wanted to be judged by what i'm wearing, etc., i'd simply think back to my Jr./High School days. But that absolutely does not mean that I believe that all church-going folk are like that. I'm sure there has to be some exception out there, in this fucked up world.

The church burnings (while very childish and immature) were rightfully so. If you studied the History of Europe, and how the Church corrupted so many lives with their false teachings, you would know why such atrocities are being done. Thousands of my European brothers and ancestors lost their lives all because of wars involving religion.

Yes, I am well aware -- i'm a bit of a history buff. Nothing particular, but I just enjoy learning history, and European Christian history disturbs me, aswell. Well, a lot of Christian history bothers me. It saddens me to know that some "Christians" have commited such atrocities, all over the world, even in present day history.

I don't know your religious views either, assuming you do perhaps believe in your God I'll just say that I am not trying to convince you to give up your beliefs on behalf of my little rant here.

Likewise; i'm not trying to convince you of anything, nor am I trying to shove religion down your throat. But yes, I do, always have and always will believe in our God. Again, that's just my personal belief, and I certainly don't expect any single person to share my view(s).

If you want bands that preach life in a positive way then perhaps you should listen to Christian Black Metal instead. Same guitar riffs, same keyboards, but a different and positive message entirely.

I do. I love the Christian Metalcore band, Norma Jean. Their entire album "Bless the Martyr and Kiss the Child" is great. My thing is, I hate being pissed off and angry all the time. It gets old, and listening to Cannibal Corpse, Slayer, etc. all the time doesn't exactly put me in a positive mood. That's not to say that I don't enjoy those bands/genres, because I do. A lot. In fact, i've seen them all in concert, and I really enjoyed their shows.

I see this existence we call life absolute shit because the Human race is shit along with everything it is that we do. I see life in a negative way, and I'm never going to change.

I used to think exactly like you. Exactly. To this day, there are a lot of negative, hate filled aspects in my life, as i've had to endure a lot of shit -- but they're my demons, and I combat them the best way I know how -- love and positivity. As I mentioned, being pissed off and mad, all-the-time, gets me nowhere.

And I wouldn't expect ya to change, VP. If everyone in this world were the same, it would be a very boring. And I must 'tip my hat' for this 'convo' -- it's always nice to hear other people truely speak their mind about such topics I hold dear, such as music, history, etc.

[VirusPunk]

Mark, I'll just make this very short and say that I agree with you whole heartedly on all accounts. You've made some valid points and I understand where you're coming from. I believe that you truly know your music, and I won't deny the fact that I don't always agree 100% with the message(s) these bands seem to associate themselves with either. I don't always like to feed myself with negativity either. Once in a blue moon when I get fed up with Black or Death Metal I pop in an AC/DC CD, or hell even some Dark Ambient can serve as that short inner peace and tranquility.

What really used to bother me personally about Metal are the ignorant fans. They think it's "untr00" as they say themselves to like other styles and genres of music. I say BS.

The bottom line is: Listen to whatever the fuck you want without caring what anyone thinks or says.

I'm also glad to hear you know and have read your history.