Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City

[TheBatMan]

Totally fair comparison.

REmake/0 both sold far better than Revelations in the same amount of time and the GC had a smaller userbase when they released. Same with Dreamcast and CV. In contrast PS2 sold ridiculous amounts of consoles yet didn't produce RE sales like RE5 has. The RE name is only bigger since back then which casts an extra big shadow over Revelations poor sales. Size of userbase only matters in extremely small numbers when it comes to sales and 3DS is past that as a smaller userbase GC proved.

Resident Evil was at the height of its popularity ten years ago, especially critically so the sales were a no brainer, so much so that Capcom could afford to sign that exclusivity deal with Nintendo. Because of these two factors, more people were willing to switch to Nintendo to get their RE fix, but are not prepared to do it today because of a high price tag for a handheld and for just one game. Not to mention Remake was a re-imagining of one of the greatest games ever made so comparing that to Revelations is a little unfair. The gamecube was an impressive console back in the day and was designed to take on the PS2 and Xbox, the 3DS is obviously not a competitor to the 360 and PS3. And I believe Code Veronica when it was finally ported to the PS2 easily shipped more units than the Dreamcast version ever did.
And I'm sorry, but how does size of userbase only matter in small numbers when we're talking a difference of 70+ million people?

Most of the people buying RE5 now are likely new console buyers, people who owned 360 or PS3 for years will have long bought it if wanted it in 99% of cases. So given that 3DS is currently the top selling hardware weekly and it has far far less worthwhile games making Revelations a shining beacon...why is it not selling better than the old RE5, or ORC. Everything favours Revelations, growing userbase, lack of competition from other games, production values and review scores far above ORC, starring character popularity.

Because its basic maths. 15 million people have access to Revelations. Only 25% of them may like Resident Evil and have an interest in it. That 3.75 million units sold.
Now let's turn to the XBOX and PS3 and just for argument's sake say only 25% have an interest in Resident Evil (though obviously its much more), 90 million have access to it so that's 22.5 million units sold.
Everything that favours Revelations also has its flip side. Limitied accessibility, high price tag for a hand held game and it too had some unfavourable review scores.

It is pretty evident that the RE name even with all the benefits behind it is not the main sales drive. Gameplay is, that is why ORC has already sold better, because people like the gameplay and game type. ORC haters need chew and swallow that bitter pill. The more it is claimed ORC sells on RE name the more the point is self defeating because of Revelations.

So your saying that Operation Raccoon City is second only to Mass Effect 3 because of the gameplay and nothing to do with Resident Evil? Your saying that people who have no interest in RE yet like squad based shooters are gonna pick this up just because it is new and not because there are far superior titles out there? A bug-ridden, boring, limited squad shooter that has been slated critically and even by hardcore RE fans who can be forgiving at the best of times and with a £40 price tag is gonna appeal more to neutral people over the likes of say Modern Warfare 2 that is what £20 these days, has a massive online following and is a much better game?

Its Resident Evil, so it sells. Can you think of another franchise that has had so many spin-off titles, or could afford to?

[Dracarys]

Resident Evil was at the height of its popularity ten years ago

RE height of popularity is now, RE was dwindling 10 years ago when it left PS1 and each new game producing lower sales, it is the entire reason they went and did with RE4 what they did. You're just completely ignoring the movies also, opinions of them good or bad do not matter but to completely ignore the way they made even bigger the RE name is silly.

Your maths example show why size of userbase does not matter, and you've ignored the fact RE5 is selling better than Revelations when most of the userbase should own it by now if they want, killing the larger userbase size argument anyway.

MW2 is a completely different game type to ORC, aside from shooting the two have little in common.

For your last comment, Mario, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Street Fighter, Mega-Man. Plenty more.

[TheBatMan]

RE height of popularity is now, RE was dwindling 10 years ago when it left PS1 and each new game producing lower sales, it is the entire reason they went and did with RE4 what they did. You're just completely ignoring the movies also, opinions of them good or bad do not matter but to completely ignore the way they made even bigger the RE name is silly.

RE was not dwindling ten years ago. It needed a change sure, and it got one albeit three years later but it was still considered a bigger franchise then than it is now, and it had less rivals than it did now. Sure it's still extremely popular now but it doesn't have the following it once did, both critically and with the fanbase.

If you want to bring the movies into this then its another case in point that they do well because of the brand name. Again, all four are slated critically, a majority of people loathe them but they do have their cult followers, granted. There are plenty of action/horror cheee fests that people can enjoy without taking it seriously but how many do well enough to get up to sequel number 5, especially when most people agree they are garbage? It's because of the main star (Milla Jovovich is not a big name) the Director (ha!) or the brand name. Answers on a postcard please...
Paul Anderson also did it with AVP. He hid a sub-par movie behind the brand name. In 2004 we hadn't had an Alien film for 7 years, we hadn't had a Predator film for 14 years, so it's not hard to understand that anyone with half an interest in science fiction is going to watch a film called Alien vs. Predator, no matter how bad the reviews are.

Your maths example show why size of userbase does not matter, and you've ignored the fact RE5 is selling better than Revelations when most of the userbase should own it by now if they want, killing the larger userbase size argument anyway.

How exactly? To the newcomer, RE5 is cheaper, has aged well, is more accessible to the masses and has online capability, so why is it a surprise it is selling better than Revelations? You also have old fans who may have loved the PS1 era but drifted away from the series. A £10 RE game is enough of a tempter is it not? Hell my boss did that only a few months ago and actually didn't enjoy the game and traded it back in. But the appeal was there because of the name and the price, but he certainly wasn't going to shell out for a 3DS and get Revelations was he?

Revelations biggest flaw in terms of sales is because its on a handheld, and a controversial handheld at that given the problems people have had with the 3D effect. That is all.

MW2 is a completely different game type to ORC, aside from shooting the two have little in common.

I know I was using Mass Effect 3 as an example in terms of current sales. If people want a squad based shooter, there are far better, cheaper alternatives to ORC, such as MW2. And another argument for the good sales being the brand name? How about Slant Six themselves? A company with a more than dodgy history with their titles yet all of a sudden people are rushing to buy their new game? I wonder why...

For your last comment, Mario, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Street Fighter, Mega-Man. Plenty more.

And now you've just more or less proved my point for me. All top, popular brand names that can create spin-off after spin-off safe in the knowledge that the fan base is there to buy them, regardless of the quality.

A SOCOM spinoff on the other hand...

[Pikminister]

Not to be rude but you're posting a lot of crap here

Sorry, but when it comes to facts, you seem to be the one posting a lot of manure. Especially when it comes to ORC. You're getting quite famous for that here. I mean you got the only copy of the game with absolutely no bugs or glitches. Not even Slant Six Games has that version.

All the above and after reading you're little discussion with the TheBatMan... wow... keep white-knighting for ORC. You make Outbreak fans look tame in comparison. That's all I'm gonna tell you.

[Darkside05]

Anyone tried the new DLC? Downloaded it before and will try tomorrow.

[News Bot]

Sorry, but when it comes to facts, you seem to be the one posting a lot of manure. Especially when it comes to ORC. You're getting quite famous for that here. I mean you got the only copy of the game with absolutely no bugs or glitches. Not even Slant Six Games has that version.

All the above and after reading you're little discussion with the TheBatMan... wow... keep white-knighting for ORC. You make Outbreak fans look tame in comparison. That's all I'm gonna tell you.

You fool. Operation Raccoon City is canon because Mike Jones.

[Pikminister]

You fool. Operation Raccoon City is canon because Mike Jones.

Right... that's why they try to stand-up for ORC so much here... because IT'S PART OF THE CANON. Time-traveling cars and all.

I forgot about that... Oh, foolish me.

[Dracarys]

Sorry, but when it comes to facts, you seem to be the one posting a lot of manure. Especially when it comes to ORC. You're getting quite famous for that here. I mean you got the only copy of the game with absolutely no bugs or glitches. Not even Slant Six Games has that version.

All the above and after reading you're little discussion with the TheBatMan... wow... keep white-knighting for ORC. You make Outbreak fans look tame in comparison. That's all I'm gonna tell you.

I called out some BS, I do not give a crap if people do not like me for it because they do not like hearing it. Revelations proves my point, and the only reply it gets is another excuse I already showed to be flawed and wrong. None of my facts posted above are wrong in regards to sales etc but people ike to ignore such things if it kills their point. Is this the survival horror defence force ignoring reality like usual? Seems like it. Even the movies apparently not made the RE name better known, you know those 4 movies that make craploads of money every release and are really successful, that are getting the RE name in homes that don't even play the RE video games. Not done a damn thing to boost the RE name.

The arguments against what I said do not even add up: ORC is selling on RE name alone, but the RE name was biggest 10 years ago...so why it selling on name alone now when it could not 10 years ago and the game had a major gameplay shift enforced because of it, and if ORC is selling on name alone why can Revelations not do the same when it has everything else going for it and ORC has every else against it. Blaming RE name is the empty excuse of someone who just wants to hate on the games success.

White knighting ORC...this makes me laugh, some people are slating it so hard over pretty much everything, even stuff other games do (no such thing as a double standard!) that simply pointing out some errors in the blind hatred is white knighting it? I suppose in contrast to such jaded views it could be seen as that but not by any objective person.

ORC is actually a big disappointment for me and on other forums I've recommended people do not buy it until price drops, this does not mean I'm gonna to make up stuff to hate on the game and it does not mean I will not defend its good points.

[News Bot]

I called out some BS, I do not give a crap if people do not like me for it because they do not like hearing it. Revelations proves my point, and the only reply it gets is another excuse I already showed to be flawed and wrong. None of my facts posted above are wrong in regards to sales etc but people ike to ignore such things if it kills their point. Is this the survival horror defence force ignoring reality like usual? Seems like it. Even the movies apparently not made the RE name better known, you know those 4 movies that make craploads of money every release and are really successful, that are getting the RE name in homes that don't even play the RE video games. Not done a damn thing to boost the RE name.

The arguments against what I said do not even add up: ORC is selling on RE name alone, but the RE name was biggest 10 years ago...so why it selling on name alone now when it could not 10 years ago and the game had a major gameplay shift enforced because of it, and if ORC is selling on name alone why can Revelations not do the same when it has everything else going for it and ORC has every else against it. Blaming RE name is the empty excuse of someone who just wants to hate on the games success.

White knighting ORC...this makes me laugh, some people are slating it so hard over pretty much everything, even stuff other games do (no such thing as a double standard!) that simply pointing out some errors in the blind hatred is white knighting it? I suppose in contrast to such jaded views it could be seen as that but not by any objective person.

ORC is actually a big disappointment for me and on other forums I've recommended people do not buy it until price drops, this does not mean I'm gonna to make up stuff to hate on the game and it does not mean I will not defend its good points.

Nobody said the movies did not bolster the franchise name. People said the movies are partially successful because of the franchise name. Fans do watch them, mostly out of morbid curiosity.

Revelations' marketing was very poor in the U.S. All of the games (even re-releases) get commercials in Japan. The commercials in Europe were laughable (and usually are, see; BH4 commercial with titty suckling). And again, the 3DS is a very polarizing system, and Operation Raccoon City was more heavily marketed to a wider user-base and released very shortly after Revelations. Revelations also had a lot of negative publicity over Nintendo's forced $50 price tag due to the use of their proprietary card. Not a lot of the existing fan-base (majority of the game's sales) for the series actually owned the 3DS either.

You've been a White Knight for ORC many times in the past, to logic-defying degrees, even when proven wrong. You haven't really pointed out any errors at all except personal speculation. Nothing you (ever) say has any evidence to go along with it. Then you go and accuse others of making things up, again without actually providing evidence to support that accusation except your own subjective and honestly questionable opinion. None of the glitches that have been reported so far have been made up and there is a heap of video and photographic evidence you constantly ignore.

It should also be noted that the PS3 version of ORC is generally the one where the brunt of the glitch reporting comes from. It's a broken game. I can say this from experience. I can also say from experience however, that the 360 version is much better. Though the game in general is still piss. All of the slating it gets is well-deserved, and the majority of its sales come from the fact that it has "Resident Evil/Biohazard" in the name. You thinking otherwise is not fact, it's a minority opinion.

[Pikminister]

I called out some BS, I do not give a crap if people do not like me for it because they do not like hearing it.

It's not BS that ORC sold well because of the dang RE brand name on the box. C'mon, be serious.

You're being a bit silly for both insisting that it wasn't that at all. And also when claiming that a game that came out on a system with a limited market for that type of game (and rating), is clear evidence that the RE brand name plays absolutely no role in how a game fares on consoles. You fail to use perspective in each case and that's why both claims do not hold water and comes across as unadulterated horse manure.

Look at these recent NPD numbers:

02. Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City (360, PS3) Capcom USA - 582K
XX. Binary Domain - 20K

Both are mediocre TPS games. Now think hard... Binary Domain is clearly superior in production values & quality than ORC. Yet the lesser game sold better. Why? Because BD was a new IP while ORC was riding on the fucking coat-tails of RE's recognizable brand name. Simple logic.

And according to you, all that is BS... Jeeeesus!

BTW, this is nothing personal against you. I still respect you and hope you enjoy ORC.

[Dracarys]

It's not BS that ORC sold well because of the dang RE brand name on the box. C'mon, be serious.

You're being a bit silly for both insisting that it wasn't that at all. And also when claiming that a game that came out on a system with a limited market for that type of game (and rating), is clear evidence that the RE brand name plays absolutely no role in how a game fares on consoles. You fail to use perspective in each case and that's why both claims do not hold water and comes across as unadulterated horse manure.

Look at these recent NPD numbers:

02. Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City (360, PS3) Capcom USA - 582K
XX. Binary Domain - 20K

Both are mediocre TPS games. Now think hard... Binary Domain is clearly superior in production values & quality than ORC. Yet the lesser game sold better. Why? Because BD was a new IP while ORC was riding on the fucking coat-tails of RE's recognizable brand name. Simple logic.

And according to you, all that is BS... Jeeeesus!

BTW, this is nothing personal against you. I still respect you and hope you enjoy ORC.

The RE name certainly raises awareness of a game, especially compared to a new IP with sod all promotion but this does not translate directly to sales. I stand by Revelations proving that name alone does not sell the game. For most people, do I need state I'm not talking absolutes?

The Wii offerings are the same, RE4 the action shooter sold well, Umbrella Chronicles the rail shooter sold well, then REmake/0 ports with little action or shooting did horribly and by time DSC release the rail shooter market was flooded so it failed to repeat UC numbers. Shouldn't the name have pushed REmake/0/DSC sales higher? Port excuse does not work, RE4 was a port also, a port of game that sold more than REmake/0 did on multiple consoles already.

Just to step away from RE, do you remember the game Haze? That was a game that everyone knew about leading upto release, many people looked forward to it. Then reviews came out and it bombed critically, had technical issues, wasn't very well made, AI was criticised, short campaign. Sits at 55 on metacritic. Sound familiar? Yet in its first few weeks it did numbers just like ORC has (bare in mind Haze was released on one console only) and ended up near a million sales. This game had no RE sized name to sell it since it was a new IP. Why did it sell despite having nothing going for it...because it was a FPS, and shooters are popular. Same deal with ORC.

[News Bot]

REmake did very well. BH0 didn't do as well because it was generally a less-regarded game and people were tired of the formula. Hence why BH4 got released as it was. It became one of the best games ever and re-defined third person shooters the same way the series originally redefined the horror genre. That's why it sold so well. Revelations didn't sell well for reasons already stated. It's not a valid example to back up the claim that the franchise name doesn't have much of an effect.

DSC sold poorly because UC was a poor game. It's rare that a sequel manages to do better than a sub-par first entry. Has nothing to do with the market being "flooded". Most fans weren't interested in UC, and likewise weren't interested in DSC. Nobody wanted a rail-shooter to begin with. When fans bought the first game and simply had their doubts clarified, what reason did they have to buy the sequel?

You claim not to talk in absolutes yet your Haze and "FPS/Shooters popular" example is an absolute in itself. Haze had a lot of marketing and promotion, much moreso than ORC. The latter just has a popular franchise name to help it limp along despite being a very poor game. It's marketing doesn't even begin to touch that of Haze, which was all over the place.

[Dracarys]

I see, I show examples using sales numbers, something solid, to back up the reasoning. You use 'it was' and ignore any sales data. There was only a 100k sales difference between REmake and RE0 if you bothered to check so how REmake did 'very well' but RE0 did not makes little sense, and both games sales were much lower than anything on PS1.

Your DSC statement that is was the game type that made DSC sell poorly just reinforces that the RE name does not sell games, do you not realise you're killing your own claim. Most earlier released rail shooters on Wii sold well and latter ones did not also reinforces that gametype is what matters for many series, not just the name. So you agree with me if for different reasons.

Also what were these reason for low Revelations sales that were already stated?

- The 'RE' name that apparently sells even horrible games like ORC?
- The good reviews it had.
- The fact it is on a console that offers it very little competition from others games right now and for the known future.
- That it is on a console with the fastest growing userbase.
- The clear high quality production values.
- The marketing, which you claim is the reason Haze sold so perfectly valid here.

- Oh right, it sold bad because of 'only 15m 3DS consoles so far' despite it being pointed out the GC had far smaller userbase when REMake/RE0 released and they sold better, or the Dreamcast that sold far less consoles and died an early grave sold CV better.

[Rombie]

The PS2 version of CVX sold almost twice the amount of the DC version. And that was beggining from the same (time) starting point roughly where the PS2 console was only avaliable in the same length that the DC console was as well - approx six months. The PS2 also had a surprisingly slow beginning due to it's very high price point at the time compared to the DC's original release price.

To me it's fairly obvious in that case that the fanbase already on the PlayStation platform and it's history with the franchise held onto helping it sell. The same reason why RE4 sold the most amount of copies on a single platform on the PS2 (even though it was an inferior version).

Now... it's obviously hard to gauge sales of REmake and Zero on the Wii as bad or not, mostly due to the fact the Wii still allowed the playing the original GC editions and unlike RE4 wasn't given much in the way of better enhancements like proper Wii motion controls.

Wondering why I mention this? Well I bring this up as the Wii version of RE4 outsold the GC version. And yet the GC version sales was considered a success in it's time, it's hard to ever equate the REmake and Zero numbers on the GC to a good or bad example for the franchise because the numbers on the Nintendo consoles aren't consistant as to say the from RE1 through RE4 on the PS1 and PS2.

I think the N3DS is a hard platform to say RE is going to be a brand seller on. On the one hand given RE's franchise history on Nintendo platforms in the past decade you'd begin to think it should have legs, but even given the numbers of RE4 at a peak and the average numbers overall it's hard to say Resident Evil has ever really ever been a success on any of the Nintendo platforms. And so therefor, much like as I said about REmake and Zero, it's too inconsistant to ever be referred to.

[Dracarys]

The PS2 version of CVX sold almost twice the amount of the DC version.

Does nobody check numbers? CV on DC sold 1.1m, not counting the 'X' re-release in Japan. On PS2 CVX sold 1.4m. How is this twice the amount?