Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City

[Smiley]

You do realize UC does have its own flaws that I already addressed. I can do the same trick to.

"So we're working on the RE3 scenario now. What can we summarize?"
"Well it had Jill and Nemesis. We can shoot him. Sound good?"
"Well hold on, she had a tag-a-long didn't she? What was his name?"
"Carlos?"
"Yep. Throw them together in Raccoon City."
"Want us to go back to RE3 and come up with some levels to design?"
"Nope."
"Nope?"
"Why should we? We're Capcom. Just use some Raccoon City locations from that other game. As long as we throw in Nemesis later people won't care."

It's a very messy situation. It plays out like they escaped on the 28th without any solid time gap whereas Ada's escape is on Oct. 1st. And both are supposed to coexist for the bombing of the city.

The sub-plot you mentioned with Sergei and his clones also undermines the point of Sheena Island. To put it simply, Umbrella Chronicles is officially getting away with the problems people are upset about over ORC which happens to be a game where you are allowed to mess up the canon.

But I'm sure I'll get my throat torn out over such talk.

[News Bot]

You do realize UC does have its own flaws that I already addressed. I can do the same trick to.

"So we're working on the RE3 scenario now. What can we summarize?"
"Well it had Jill and Nemesis. We can shoot him. Sound good?"
"Well hold on, she had a tag-a-long didn't she? What was his name?"
"Carlos?"
"Yep. Throw them together in Raccoon City."
"Want us to go back to RE3 and come up with some levels to design?"
"Nope."
"Nope?"
"Why should we? We're Capcom. Just use some Raccoon City locations from that other game. As long as we throw in Nemesis later people won't care."

It's a very messy situation. It plays out like they escaped on the 28th without any solid time gap whereas Ada's escape is on Oct. 1st. And both are supposed to coexist for the bombing of the city.

The sub-plot you mentioned with Sergei and his clones also undermines the point of Sheena Island. To put it simply, Umbrella Chronicles is officially getting away with the problems people are upset about over ORC which happens to be a game where you are allowed to mess up the canon.

But I'm sure I'll get my throat torn out over such talk.

The example you use was stated to be irrelevant to the plot by CAPCOM. It's an "historic summary" for people new to the series and the game files elaborate on the exact events anyway. The only things in UC which matter are Umbrella's End and the bonus scenarios. This was how it was from the beginning. It's not a valid example and does not compare to Operation Raccoon City, which is touted as being just as important as the likes of BH2 and BH3 and "doesn't contradict anything" when you don't willfully change the canon. Even though it contradicts everything. Some people seem to be blind to this discrepancy.

Sergei does not undermine Sheena Island. Sergei's clones were used for Tyrant experimentation since Tyrants required a very peculiar set of genes that Sergei had. It still took years to make the Tyrants, and when they were finally created, mass production was required on Sheena Island after they discovered BHN, which was a fast, efficient and cheap way of creating many Tyrants. Sergei does not undermine or conflict with this at all.

[TheBatMan]

You do realize UC does have its own flaws that I already addressed. I can do the same trick to.

"So we're working on the RE3 scenario now. What can we summarize?"
"Well it had Jill and Nemesis. We can shoot him. Sound good?"
"Well hold on, she had a tag-a-long didn't she? What was his name?"
"Carlos?"
"Yep. Throw them together in Raccoon City."
"Want us to go back to RE3 and come up with some levels to design?"
"Nope."
"Nope?"
"Why should we? We're Capcom. Just use some Raccoon City locations from that other game. As long as we throw in Nemesis later people won't care."

Your probably right with this, but that's what Capcom intended. These re-tellings in UC were never meant to replace the story of RE3. And comparing UC to the likes of OPRC is a little unfair considering it was a low budget on-the-rails shooter for the Wii where the storytelling would be hampered anyway.

Slant Six have gone all out on their game which is a third-person squad shooter covering the whole Raccoon City saga. They are taking it seriously and they are claiming it to be canon, and from what we've seen so far, it's not.

[Smiley]

So they are filler? Cause they certainly failed as historical summaries. Their existence does not do any favors for the actual titles they are based on.

And don't make excuses for Capcom. Low budget or not, they should know better regarding their canon. You're giving a different set of developers a hard enough time on a few trivial errors that Capcom has been guilty of. But as long as they pull the excuse that only some of it is canon you are free to turn a blind eye.

We had the same set of problems for RE5. Changed to 2009 and Jill's age is screwed up. Cause I can tell you problems arise when she was born in 1974, 23 in RE3, 30 in Lost in Nightmares, and 33 in RE5. This could have been resolved, but it wasn't. And obviously RE5 is considered as canon as RE3.

It's very ludicrous of some of you to grab your pitch forks on slant six. That is all.

Sergei does not undermine Sheena Island. Sergei's clones were used for Tyrant experimentation since Tyrants required a very peculiar set of genes that Sergei had. It still took years to make the Tyrants, and when they were finally created, mass production was required on Sheena Island after they discovered BHN, which was a fast, efficient and cheap way of creating many Tyrants. Sergei does not undermine or conflict with this at all.

That sounds an awful lot like undermining. There's no point now to have a Sheena Island (or a T-002 for that matter) because of Umbrella Chronicles and its nonsense.

[TheBatMan]

So they are filler? Cause they certainly failed as historical summaries. Their existence does not do any favors for the actual titles they are based on.

And don't make excuses for Capcom. Low budget or not, they should know better regarding their canon. You're giving a different set of developers a hard enough time on a few trivial errors that Capcom has been guilty of. But as long as they pull the excuse that only some of it is canon you are free to turn a blind eye.

We had the same set of problems for RE5. Changed to 2009 and Jill's age is screwed up. Cause I can tell you problems arise when she was born in 1974, 23 in RE3, 30 in Lost in Nightmares, and 33 in RE5. This could have been resolved, but it wasn't. And obviously RE5 is considered as canon as RE3.

It's very ludicrous of some of you to grab your pitch forks on slant six. That is all.

Ah, yes. Jill's age. That most catastrophic of errors. Exactly the same as changing the whole course of events of Raccoon City.

[Smiley]

Great so now we're weighing in on which errors are excusable instead of addressing the clear cut fact that Capcom makes mistakes as well.

And changing the whole course? Don't be so over-dramatic.

[TheBatMan]

Great so now we're weighing in on which errors are excusable instead of addressing the clear cut fact that Capcom makes mistakes as well.

And changing the whole course? Don't be so over-dramatic.

It's just common sense at the end of the day. Jill's age is an error, no two ways about it and it should have been spotted. But does it affect the gameplay, story or canon at all? Not one bit. Changing the date of Hunk's Op in Op Raccoon City is completely different because all of a sudden you have one game that says the Op happened on September 20th and you have several others that portrays it as September 23rd. That's when the headaches and confusion begin to creep in.

And I'm not saying Capcom never makes mistakes either, but RE3 UC was never meant to be an accurate re-telling of RE3, and likewise Zero and 1. They were to give people who were new to RE an experience of the old games, which is what we got. Of course we wanted more, but Capcom were not willing to put the effort in.

And I wouldn't say I'm being over dramatic I'm simply saying Slant Six are changing important elements of the Raccoon saga, including bringing the Outbreak forward by three days and having the U.B.C.S. in the city a week earlier than what they should be etc. And that's just after one trailer. God knows what else they have up their sleeve.

[Smiley]

It affects the canon cause it affects the character's background. It questions her actual age at the time of "death". But that's only if you care about the canon.

And that "experience" or "re-telling" could have been better. It's their canon after all that you guys are trying to maintain. Simple mix ups in the dates of their own timeline (in their own game) is pretty inexcusable and frankly a cop out. Jill escapes on the 28th and Ada on October 1st when the bomb strikes both areas. This is another instance that could have been avoided for Umbrella Chronicles. How are people new to the series going to get a sense of the canon with that game when Capcom didn't care enough to work with it?

Do you know what that says? Ivans, Sergei, the mix up in dates or downright changes to the canon of past games? All it says is that the game play is the primary concern over any importance in the plot. Which it is for the Chronicles series. And just as well for ORC. They think it'll be cool to fight Birkin alongside HUNK. Just like Capcom thought it would be cool to have Jill fight Nemesis in one chapter of the Raccoon City event. And the game play is designed around those "cool" concepts; canon be damned.

There's no point in getting uptight over a spin off. Especially one that encourages you to go nuts with the canon if you want to. Who cares if parts are being labelled as canon or official? If you see glaring flaws that cripple the canon then brush it off and look toward the main entries (which some of the time aren't as helpful either since RE1 has no canon ending in its own game). Or pick and choose what you want to believe since that seems to be what the fans are doing with "official" spin offs these days. People make mistakes.

I can say that there looks to be a lot more effort into the development of ORC than UC. Ironic really since it's Slant Six and not Capcom directly.

[TheBatMan]

It affects the canon cause it affects the character's background. It questions her actual age at the time of "death". But that's only if you care about the canon.

How does it affect her background exactly given what we know about her? That she graduated high school a year earlier? Big deal. Its just a small error that has no lasting consequences whatsoever.

And that "experience" or "re-telling" could have been better. It's their canon after all that you guys are trying to maintain. Simple mix ups in the dates of their own timeline (in their own game) is pretty inexcusable and frankly a cop out. Jill escapes on the 28th and Ada on October 1st when the bomb strikes both areas. This is another instance that could have been avoided for Umbrella Chronicles. How are people new to the series going to get a sense of the canon with that game when Capcom didn't care enough to work with it?

Course it could, but again Capcom were being lazy. They wanted to bring in a new audience for the Wii and even made it an on-the-rails shooter to appeal to that audience and make it easier to play. All Raccoon's Desruction tried to do was have Jill escape from zombified Raccoon City, nothing more. And even if her escape date was October 1st rather than September 28th, it still wouldn't make any difference as Jill was obviously not on the roof of the police station at the time of her escape. And the idea was to bring new people to the world of Resident Evil, not the massive story behind it. For those interested in that you may as well buy the original games.

Do you know what that says? Ivans, Sergei, the mix up in dates or downright changes to the canon of past games? All it says is that the game play is the primary concern over any importance in the plot. Which it is for the Chronicles series. And just as well for ORC. They think it'll be cool to fight Birkin alongside HUNK. Just like Capcom thought it would be cool to have Jill fight Nemesis in one chapter of the Raccoon City event. And the game play is designed around those "cool" concepts; canon be damned.

I agree. But the important thing is that all the relevant dates in the new scenarios and the side scenarios which do add to the plot simply because they are new and cover unexplored territory, are all present and correct. Hunk escapes September 30th, Ada and Sergei escape on October 1st.
And what is the issue with Ivan exactly? He was a prototype, and the reason why Umbrella decided to dispose of the T-002 in Wesker's orders because they now had a superior model. Wesker didn't know about Ivan's development, hence why he still believed the T-002 to be the ultimate life form.

There's no point in getting uptight over a spin off. Especially one that encourages you to go nuts with the canon if you want to. Who cares if parts are being labelled as canon or official? If you see glaring flaws that cripple the canon then brush it off and look toward the main entries (which some of the time aren't as helpful either since RE1 has no canon ending in its own game). Or pick and choose what you want to believe since that seems to be what the fans are doing with "official" spin offs these days. People make mistakes.

I can say that there looks to be a lot more effort into the development of ORC than UC. Ironic really since it's Slant Six and not Capcom directly.

Because I like the look of Raccoon City, it looks fun to play and it will be great to play a game in RC that covers the whole saga with all of he characters. Hence I would like it to succeed. The killing Leon branching aspect doesn't bother me one bit as that is no different to letting Barry or Rebecca die in RE1.

But because I want it to succeed and I'm a sucka for the expanded plot, is it really so unreasonable to ask it to be canon in regard to the older games and properly researched so that mistakes are kept to a minimum?

[Archelon]

Why do I feel like that link News Bot posted regarding Metal Gear Solid's canon applies directly to Resident Evil's?

At least that's how I feel about RE's canon, anyway.

[News Bot]

You're in luck! Everyone confirmed it to be canon!

http://www.the-horror.com/forums/showthread.php?1029

So because Hiroki Kato says that Gaiden is canon... it is canon? Okay!

Why do I feel like that link News Bot posted regarding Metal Gear Solid's canon applies directly to Resident Evil's?

At least that's how I feel about RE's canon, anyway.

It's how I feel, too. We're lucky that very little in the series contradicts (unlike MGS, which has new contradictions every game) and there is a heap of supplemental material which fleshes out the storyline and explains things. What is "canon" is essentially whatever fits and is coherent. Right now ORC doesn't fit, so we're withholding solid judgement from it and bitching about it in the meantime.

Prime Blue seems more annoyed that we don't subscribe to the "seven different canons" view and is more concerned with making snide, hypocritical remarks rather than contributing anything these days. A pity, since we're not doing anything different from you, "storyline whore".

The bottom line is; the game is contradictory and doesn't fit very well so far. The developers don't seem to notice, despite supposedly being "nitpicky". Hence; cause for doubt. So sue me if I happen to cast doubt on it.

[Alexia_Ashford]

Let's try and not make it personal in here folks.

[[STARS]TyranT]

The Jill's age issue is irksome I agree, but you'd probably be suprised how often that happens. Buffy for example, during the 7 years on the show had 3 different birthdates through the course of the series....

The one thing I don't understand is, why some of you are so desperate to have the events of ORC to be classed as canon? New Bot and the folks at Project Umbrella have established what is (for me) the definitive timeline and posts here only serve to prove that further for me. Some of you seem absolutely hellbent on making the canon to a point where it doesn't work, and I honestly can't understand why.

As Resident Evil fans for years, we've always had to twist our opinions of the games to make it work, we all accepted the retelling of Resident Evil 3 in UC as nonsence compared to the main game, but at the same time we accept that the events of Umbrella's End, which as you all know occur in the same game are part of the canon. But with regard to Operation Raccoon City, you are having to go so far out to the left field to make it work, that it actually cannot work because it heavily contradicts. Why can't the same rationale we've all applied to the likes of the Chronicles games be applied again here?

It's a tough series to find the real foundations and history for, and we as a fanbase should be pleased that people are taking time out of their lives to present it to us in a way that makes it coherant and above all, actually work.

[Stu]

hahaha that sig is inspired!

[News Bot]

Moving away from the trolls; why are the "SPEC OPS" wearing desert camouflage in a city?

And on a side note, the writing on the Mayor statue is:

SIR
GERALD M. TOPENHAT

RACCOON CITY'S MAYOR
1966 - 1976

and there's another statue which is decapitated. How the fuck?