Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City

[Darkmoon]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6409/resident-evil-code-veronica-x/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/1886/resident-evil-code-veronica/

- I'm aware that Video Game Chartz is not generally considered that reliable...but apparently CVX on PS2 sold 2.34 million world wide, whereas CODE: Veronica on DreamCast sold 1.14 million worldwide.

[Rombie]

^ As above. I don't normally use Charts, but the break down for the DC version is accurate to Capcom's data and yet the PS2 numbers always seemed low on their offical IR list but the one above looks more accurate to the original statements made regarding CVX's sales numbers back in early 2002. The NPD data for the US alone at the time put the sales around 900,000.

[Dracarys]

I take Capcoms numbers over VGChartz personally. Those are solid shipped numbers without room for error where as VGC and even NPD are attempting to track and estimate consumer sales.

May possibly be because VGChartz adds different SKUs to the totals, so things like RE4/CV/outbreak bundle pack get added instead of tracked as a seperate release like Capcom does, though platinum hits lines count as original release still for capcom. This would likely account for the larger numbers, same with RE4s difference between Capcom/VGC. Of course since RE4/CV are over Capcoms numbers and Outbreak matches perfectly is more likely VGC just overtracking the games, heavily.

[Reston]

IMO, ORC would not have sold nearly as well without the RE title in it. A lot of people are weary of Slant Six from a SOCOM perspective and word does get around. Personally, as I said in the past, I only bought it because I was interested in seeing what they did with the city (got let down but w/e) and it's only because it is a RE title. This whole nonsense that RE is not as popular as it used to be is hogwash. It was and remains Capcom top tier brand. Even the guy who made Dead Rising and DR2 Kenji (his last name escapes me at the moment) is quoted as saying he wanted to replace RE with DR as being the top tier brand for the company.

And history tends to have that affect in terms of what games are successful and their sequel being better but not making as much. DSC is far superior to UC as a lot more time and effort was thrown into making the game. OBFile2 added more gameplay mechanics and could be argued as being superior to OB. I heard one of the people, don't know if it was Slant Six or Capcom but think SS, saying they wanted to do a sequel to ORC on Rockfort Island if the numbers came back good. So let's say they are given the go ahead to make ORI (Operation Rockfort Island) and SS goes around and fixes all the issues and complaints people had and actually puts out a polished product. Would it be more successful then ORC? In terms of gameplay quality and mechanics, yes, but in terms of sale, no. Word has already gotten out that SS messed up ORC and not as many people are going to give them a second chance, even if it is better. It's just a sad truth about gaming in general. You mess up once, people don't tend to forgive, especially if you're known to make bad games in the past. I don't honestly see Slant Six making another title for Capcom, ever.

[Smiley]

The PS2 version of CVX sold almost twice the amount of the DC version. And that was beggining from the same (time) starting point roughly where the PS2 console was only avaliable in the same length that the DC console was as well - approx six months. The PS2 also had a surprisingly slow beginning due to it's very high price point at the time compared to the DC's original release price.

To me it's fairly obvious in that case that the fanbase already on the PlayStation platform and it's history with the franchise held onto helping it sell. The same reason why RE4 sold the most amount of copies on a single platform on the PS2 (even though it was an inferior version).

Now... it's obviously hard to gauge sales of REmake and Zero on the Wii as bad or not, mostly due to the fact the Wii still allowed the playing the original GC editions and unlike RE4 wasn't given much in the way of better enhancements like proper Wii motion controls.

Wondering why I mention this? Well I bring this up as the Wii version of RE4 outsold the GC version. And yet the GC version sales was considered a success in it's time, it's hard to ever equate the REmake and Zero numbers on the GC to a good or bad example for the franchise because the numbers on the Nintendo consoles aren't consistant as to say the from RE1 through RE4 on the PS1 and PS2.

I think the N3DS is a hard platform to say RE is going to be a brand seller on. On the one hand given RE's franchise history on Nintendo platforms in the past decade you'd begin to think it should have legs, but even given the numbers of RE4 at a peak and the average numbers overall it's hard to say Resident Evil has ever really ever been a success on any of the Nintendo platforms. And so therefor, much like as I said about REmake and Zero, it's too inconsistant to ever be referred to.

This is also a factor. Not to mention that when Capcom tried to bring the main series to the Gamecube they overpriced RE2, 3 and CVX. Unless you're hooked as a fan, no gamer in their right mind would pay $40 for Code Veronica when the PS2 version had it for $10.

[Pikminister]

I see, I show examples using sales numbers, something solid, to back up the reasoning. You use 'it was' and ignore any sales data. There was only a 100k sales difference between REmake and RE0 if you bothered to check so how REmake did 'very well' but RE0 did not makes little sense, and both games sales were much lower than anything on PS1.

You use "solid" numbers but fail to use perspective with each individual case.

For instance, now you're comparing the numbers that the RE games got on the PS1 (a uber-popular console that held a monopoly in the gaming market at the time), to the numbers that 2 RE games got on an unpopular console with 7 million users back in 2002.

And that makes sense to you?

Another thing to consider here : REmake was a rehash of a game MILLIONS had already played before. Yet it sold more than a million units. A bit more than Capcom's original expectations in fact - they expected the game to sell ONLY 1 million units but went on to sell 1.2 million within it's first year on the market. It sold even more than that before the Cube went belly up.

When Capcom saw Remake's success, their expectations for Zero went through the roof. Since the game was a brand new entry in the series (and not a remake), they raised it's sales expectations that Zero didn't meet at that time (btw, Clock Tower 3 for the PS2 REALLY bombed back then). And that's the only reason why it was considered a failure. Not meeting Capcom's lofty sales expectations was and still is the ONLY reason as to why Zero is considered a commercial failure. Zero eventually sold nearly the same amount as REmake on the Cube alone. Well beyond the 1 million mark.

And it makes no sense to even mention how RE games sold back in the golden days of the franchise and try to apply any of that in modern times. Even with RE5, Capcom had to bundle together the sales the game got across all platforms to claim that it was the best RE selling game ever. Therefore, no reasonable comparisons can be made. Those classic games were part of a different era.

Your DSC statement that is was the game type that made DSC sell poorly just reinforces that the RE name does not sell games, do you not realise you're killing your own claim. Most earlier released rail shooters on Wii sold well and latter ones did not also reinforces that gametype is what matters for many series, not just the name. So you agree with me if for different reasons.

In those examples that you are using, the RE brand name was already established with their respective fanbase (unlike on the 3DS).

In the case with DSC, the brand name was well known on the Wii well before DSC came to the scene. You got the massive success story of RE4 and also UC (also a big success).

Now the reason DSC didn't sell too well on Wii, had nothing to do with the brand name and everything to do with how Capcom took a big massive dump on the Wii fanbase.

This story is well known to any Wii owner. Basically Capcom fucked it all up by promising something more like RE4 for the system (originally) but instead decided to "test" the waters further by making UC. Wii gamers went along (foolishly) and supported that game in hopes of getting a RE2 remake or something better. But what did Capcom do? Well, after the success of UC, instead of making a RE2 remake or a proper RE game they MADE A SEQUEL to the Chronicles game. And once ppl saw that, their enthusiasm for RE games on the Wii died completely. And there was zero motivation for supporting DSC.

So it was clear Capcom wasn't going to make a proper RE game on that platform and Wii owners just got themselves a PS3 or X360 for their RE fix from that point on (or even before then). On the Wii, there was no way a RE game would thrive again.

Capcom basically poisoned the waters they were "testing".

Also what were these reason for low Revelations sales that were already stated?

- The 'RE' name that apparently sells even horrible games like ORC?

Again, ORC came out on systems where the brand name was well known. I mean, RE5 had previously sold millions on those two systems. On the other hand, RE brand awareness on the 3DS is still rather on the low side, unlike on the PS3, X360.

Really, it's not that difficult to understand. Yet you keep going back to that and making the same mistake of trying to ignore how the brand name will affect sales on a console where it has already established itself as a successful franchise. That has not happened yet on the 3DS.

In regards to DSC breaking that trend (failing despite enjoying brand name recognition on a console), I already pointed out the unique circumstances that lead to its failure on the Wii, where there was already RE brand awareness. Only a damn fool would've continued supporting such RE hackjobs on the Wii. So it's not surprising as to why it didn't sell too well, despite the brand awareness prevalent there. Capcom's mishandling of the franchise on the Wii won out in that scenario.

Anyway...

ORC benefited from the brand name and coming out on systems were the brand name was well known. Revelations came out on a system on a 1 year old system where the brand name was just starting out and with no previous success stories to help it make it big (there was no RE5 to boost it's profile). And there wasn't a DSC scenario in either of those two cases, so that example doesn't apply with either of them being a success or not.

Simple.

[Dracarys]

I'm not gonna reply to all of that since it is too long and would be repeating too many points which already tackle much of it, such as where I said the RE name raises awareness of a product but this does not translate directly to sales, a point you seemingly ignored since you're claiming the brand name being established on 360/PS3 is what is selling ORC.

What established brand name on Wii produced RE4 Wii sales? None, gamers are not stupid, blind people unaware of the world. In most cases anyway. A majority of 3DS owners and buyers are probably well aware of most of the worthwhile library.

I'm gonna retire from this because it is just the same back and forth at this point, but I stand firm on the RE name or established fanbase on a console to go with what you said only raises awareness, the product content is what determines the sale for most people. To step away from RE for an example, I'm a massive Terminator movie fan, if a new one is announced I'm gonna follow every detail of it, the Terminator name on a movie grabs my attention, however just because I'm a Terminator fan does not mean I will for sure go see it, if it looks to be another Salvation I will pass.

[Pikminister]

I'm not gonna reply to all of that since it is too long and would be repeating too many points which already tackle much of it, such as where I said the RE name raises awareness of a product but this does not translate directly to sales, a point you seemingly ignored since you're claiming the brand name being established on 360/PS3 is what is selling ORC.

What established brand name on Wii produced RE4 Wii sales? None, gamers are not stupid, blind people unaware of the world. In most cases anyway. A majority of 3DS owners and buyers are probably well aware of most of the worthwhile library.

I'm gonna retire from this because it is just the same back and forth at this point, but I stand firm on the RE name or established fanbase on a console to go with what you said only raises awareness, the product content is what determines the sale for most people. To step away from RE for an example, I'm a massive Terminator movie fan, if a new one is announced I'm gonna follow every detail of it, the Terminator name on a movie grabs my attention, however just because I'm a Terminator fan does not mean I will for sure go see it, if it looks to be another Salvation I will pass.

You know what? How about we do this.... lets avoid comparing ORC to how other RE games did on this or that console? That way of doing things just doesn't make any sense at all.

Why you ask?

Because in each case, you had very different circumstances. Circumstances that either provided a particular game with a very unique situation. Where it could thrive or even fail. Coming out on unique platforms each with their own challenges, opportunities and limitations, makes each game's situation different. Very different. And it's hard to compare such situations to another one that belongs to a game that came out on a different platform and/or era.

And that's why people to this day keep saying "If only this game had come out on X console, it would've sold better". And they say that because indeed, each platform offers a unique opportunity for every game out there.

And that's also why CVX sold better on the PS2 than DC. And why RE1, RE2, RE3 sold better on the PS1 than on the GCN, despite being basically the same games. And why multiplatform games sell better on the X360 than on the PS3.

All this happens because each platform provides a very unique setting for those games to thrive or become a legendary bomba. So why compare how that game did to this game and all that jazz. It's pointless. Not comparable situations in each individual case. So it makes no sense at all to make comparisons.

So my proposition to cut out the mindless comparison crap is this:

Let's stick with the platforms that ORC actually came out on.

On the platforms that ORC came out on, the best selling games are usually action-shooters & most of them hit it big when they're enhanced with co-op and competitive play. On top of that, you got the fact that the RE brand name had become synonimous on those platforms with action-shooters, co-op and competitive gameplay.So right there, you had the best setting possible for ORC to make it big. It had a receptive audience that adores shooters and that had made RE5 a massive hit, previously. And when you combine the two together like ORC did (action-shooter + RE brand name), it was a no-brainer. It would've been very odd and strange if it didn't sell.

And when you just look at that situation in at by itself, it is even weirder that you would make the claim that the RE brand name had no effect on ORC selling like it did.

And bringing up other games from different eras, situations and platforms, doesn't really help make your claim look any more valid. It was a wonky claim from the start. And deep down you know it.

That is all. Put a pitchfork in me Mr. Ganado, I'm done.

[Hcloud13]

I'm so sick of this fucking game freezing on me when I'm online >.<....

Sorry,rage comment.

[Dracarys]

Spec Ops missions 2-4 out now on 360. 800 MS points.

Pricey. Impressions later.

[Hcloud13]

Spec Ops missions 2-4 out now on 360. 800 MS points.

Pricey. Impressions later.

Nothing on PSN -_-

[TheBatMan]

Spec Ops missions 2-4 out now on 360. 800 MS points.

Pricey. Impressions later.

Jesus, that is a bit cheeky.

[Vito]

10 bucks? Fuck That.

[CrimsonElder]

I havent even played the first part yet its on my Ps3 installed and everything just dont care enough to play it. Killzone has my attention for now.

[News Bot]

Pricey. Impressions later.

I love this.