RE has to go back to be Survival horror again!

[WeskerSexyCheez]

Don't get me wrong, Dead Space 2 in particular was really clever and I enjoyed it and the jump scares work for it, but I think everybody has played a game where after a point you get used to it. Dead Space has enough other things to keep it fun though. But it does lack that psychological element that makes a number of horror games truly, surreally frightening and more than anything I would like to see a new RE game based almost solely on that. I know it’s a lot to ask for; some games try for psychological horror and fail so badly it isn't funny (Alan Friggin' Wake) because it is hard to do.

[Darkmoon]

I think Dead Space does a lot of the stuff the older RE games do. Flashes of enemies that vanish before you can attack, the noises of fights and battles that you never see ending in sudden silence, cashes and bangs that don't result in attacks...and sometimes things jump out of a panel at you, an enemy you thought was dead attacks, etc.

In Dead Space 2, I also thought several areas were very well done. The apartment buildings, full of chaos and people fleeing only to fail. Someone yelling for you to stay out turning to screams for help and silence when he realizes that something is in the room. Families fleeing there own now Necromorphed relatives in tears. And later, the school nursery area that was just so wrong. Combined with the hallucinations that were...interesting, at points, and I was pretty intimidated.

Add into that the fact that even the basic enemies, such as Slashers, could be quite lethal even on later levels with your weapons upgraded and you have a much more tense experience than RE. When I saw a Slasher heading my way, I didn't go, 'Ah, sweet, something to waste ammo on' but looked around quickly to make sure when he was being minced I was going to be accosted by a Twitcher up the backside. My only real complaint with the game was that I had enough ammo to not worry about things as soon as I got hold of the ripper, which is pretty much my weapon of choice for most enemies.

Compare to RE5, which thought scary was, 'Grrr, I am a gribbly monster that is horribly mutated, grrrrrrr, here's a Sattelite Cannon to kill me with.' The scariest foe in the whole games was the Reapers, and that was because they insta-killed you. And I was personally more annoyed than scared, because Insta-Kill enemies are bullshit. Even the Hunters had the decency to not always cut your head off.

This is all entirely subjective, though. I'm sure, someone, somewhere, found RE5 terrifying but Dead Space is a walk in the park, maybe because of Dead Space's sci-fi setting compared to RE's alternative modern one. For me, though, Dead Space proved that horror can be done using the RE4/5 control scheme - Capcom just didn't want to, or didn't know how.

[Mr. Spencer]

I agree, Reapers seemed like a cheap bullshit way to try and cause panic. But it was an artificial forced panic based on a gameplay mechanic, you weren't scared because of seeing what they did and having some tense build up, you were scared because you knew that you had to reload from a previous save if they killed you.

[Darkmoon]

Pretty much, yeah. They gave you the sinking feeling of yet another reload.

[Member_of_STARS]

THANK YOU. Yeah, ugly things jumping out at me from around corners screaming only gets less scary with time. If Capcom is going to try for real horror they should try ripping off an independent horror game or at least Silent Hill 2. Maybe they should try using the original RE4 as a base. That looked pretty frightening if just a tad too supernatural.

Wait, you guys talk about Dead Space not being scary and then bring up Resident Evil 4 as somekind of an argument? Haha! That game was a joke. Want to see why?



First run.

Supernatural isn't the word. While RE4 did use classic elements to build up tention, namely tied down monsters or specifically set moments where you knew shit was about to happen when you pushed a button, Dead Space was much more honest and clever. I was never under the illusion that the vent shafts weren't safe. Or that crossing a huge hallway wouldn't trigger an attack. Keeping an eye on the vents with limited ammunition (because "survival horror" isn't about specifically psychological tention, methods of delivering horror are varying, but the term "survival" means resource management) and then getting screwed by something coming from somewhere you felt was safe because you got tunnel vision- that's a genuine scare.

The problem I had with DS2 was that by the end of the game I was fully stocked with ammunition. But that's because I chose the right upgrades and the right weapons in the right situations. 3/4-ths of the game was tense.

If you run out of ammo in RE4, and it's not a mission critical shooting scene, there's no problems. In DS, you're out of ammo, you're screwed.

I wouldn't dish Dead Space. Despite the serious plotholes, the game has more integrity than RE had for more than 7 years. And DS2 is an actual evolution over DS, with gameplay-improving changes.

_____________

On topic. Should RE go back to survival horror the way it was before 2004? No, not because it wouldn't work. But because CAPCOM can't create a good RE game unless it's a remake, anymore.

[TheSelfishGene]

In contrast, during my first (and only) playthough of DS2 I was sprinting to get to the marker at the end, that's how little ammo I had.
I just barely managed to kill the boss.
One of these days when I have time I'll go back and play with a completely different weapon set.

I also think the visual design is 'scarier' too. In the newer RE games (#5 especially) the enemies are just grotesque and weird, rather than being something I can identify with, and know I should be scared of.
Visually I find this

to be alot scarier than this


Simply because I can easily identify a reason to be scared of it. Yet gameplay wise one is a comparatively common enemy that's easy to defeat, and the other is a boss monster.

I think that enemy visual design is another thing that has to work well to ramp up the horror in a horror title, and this is one of the many areas where I think RE5 completely dropped the ball.

[Alexia_Ashford]

They should try and do something like Decay. Now that's an indie game, but it scares the shit out of me so I get Gareth to play and I watch. There's no monsters jumping out (well, most of the time), but you're having to navigate a seriously fucked up creepy environment. Things just appear, you can hear horrible things, you look out of the window and suddenly some weirdo is looking at you, ugh. That's the only horror game that's made me scream since I was about 11/12 playing Eternal Darkness. It is slightly similar to that in some ways, in that it uses the power of suggestion, and general unease. More psychological, as opposed to gross monsters you have to kill.

[WeskerSexyCheez]

Um, just fyi Member_of_STARS, none of us actually said that RE4 or RE5 are scarier than Dead Space and I meant the never finished or released Resident Evil 4 that they scrapped BECAUSE they thought it looked too ghostly or supernatural...

[alexdz]

No, the sounds of the shuffling of the zombies or clicking of the hunters claws that were round the corner built tension and fear, you were scared to go round the corner and face them, that's horror. Now you rarely even know the enemy is coming until it jumps out at you, there's no buildup so there's no fear, just a fright.

To me it's almost the same thing, but I see what you mean. I just think that if you can hear the enemies then you are already expecting them so you won't as scared as you'd normally be.

While we're talking about other scary or tense games, did anyone else find the laboratory sections from the first Metroid Prime very horror-like? They aren't scary, just very tense with a heavy atmosphere of isolation and that Space Pirates would come slashing and shooting when you least expected.

[Mr. Spencer]

They should try and do something like Decay. Now that's an indie game, but it scares the shit out of me so I get Gareth to play and I watch. There's no monsters jumping out (well, most of the time), but you're having to navigate a seriously fucked up creepy environment. Things just appear, you can hear horrible things, you look out of the window and suddenly some weirdo is looking at you, ugh. That's the only horror game that's made me scream since I was about 11/12 playing Eternal Darkness. It is slightly similar to that in some ways, in that it uses the power of suggestion, and general unease. More psychological, as opposed to gross monsters you have to kill.

God damn, that face!

[Alexia_Ashford]

I was shitting myself for half an hour after that face.

[Mr. Spencer]

I remember you linking me to it, wow. One of the creepiest things I've ever seen.

[Alexia_Ashford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j586ns3Xh-w

Skip to 7:17. Bear in mind this isn't a game that relies on cheap thrills, and before this bit, even though stuff had just "appeared", it was more unnerving as opposed to in your face. So when this happened when I played it with Gareth, completely unexpected, screamed and my heart was pounding for a full half an hour and adrenaline was going like crazy. As you can see from the video comments, it has even made horror veterans scream.

[Darkmoon]

...this game must be mine.

[Alexia_Ashford]

It is some seriously creepy shit. I make Gareth play it, because I daren't. At the start of Decay Part 4 (not finished it yet), the horrible scratchy noises coming from the well freaked me out. Sitting in bed shouting "IT'S CREEPING ME OUT, I CAN'T WATCH", then later on we check out a window and some man in a long black robe is staring at us. Then we check a second time, he's gone. UGH!