Wesker's Report - Canonicity Debate (or the Official "WTF Hiroki Kato!?" Thread)

[TheSelfishGene]

Doesn't Leon being killed in gaiden invalidate that part of WR?
If you ignore the report, what does the overall canon lose? Esp since uc and dsc have incorporated alot of it. And I'd say there's grounds to ignore it, given it being wrong on at least the two points you mention, and the Sherry debacle.

Just curious. Are you using a translated Japanese version or the English?

[Mr_Zombie]

I haven't played Gaiden in a while (and I'm not planning to replay it ever), but does the B.O.W. have the ability to clone? Because at the end of the game "Leon", Barry and Lucia are fighting it, so if "Leon" really is a B.O.W. in disguise, then that would mean there are actually two shape-shifting monsters on the ship.

[Archelon]

If you ignore the report, what does the overall canon lose?

The overall canon loses pretty much nothing if you ignore WR, but then, you could say the same thing about the spinoff games, too.

But as I said, UC (and DSC to an extent) effectively replaces WR by incorporating the aspects of it that are still relevant (Wesker injecting himself with the super virus, Wesker "saving" Ada, Ada retrieving a tissue sample rather than Sherry's pendant) while nixing the rest (Sherry being in Wesker's hands, Leon joining an underground anti-Umbrella group, HUNK retrieving the G-Virus sample Leon threw away).

[Guest]

Stu is right, I already gave you an answer. A factual one read clear as day from a magazine interview, so not theory or anything. You've dismissed it as wrong though just 'because'.

It came from the mouth of someone making 3.5 and I have never seen a single reason to not to believe it. Gaiden would lead into RE 3.5 but was retconned outta canon when 3.5 got axed, but by this time Weskers Report has referenced it.

I'll call BS on that one. There was never any in-depth interview on the early versions of RE4 except for the EGM one with Hiroyuki Kobayashi from April 2005. That, and the fake interview from GamingWorld X, but not even that establishes a connection to Gaiden.

[Dracarys]

If I'm ever looking through my old stuff at my dads I'll have a look for it and prove it. I'll be honest though, I'm not likely to do this for a very long time. Its been in his loft for almost a decade along with lots of other stuff of mine and in all that time I've only once had a reason to go up there and get something. This isn't even important to me.

[News Bot]

Stu is right, I already gave you an answer. A factual one read clear as day from a magazine interview, so not theory or anything. You've dismissed it as wrong though just 'because'.

It came from the mouth of someone making 3.5 and I have never seen a single reason to not to believe it. Gaiden would lead into RE 3.5 but was retconned outta canon when 3.5 got axed, but by this time Weskers Report has referenced it.

Uhh, no... You haven't provided anything. You don't even know the name of the magazine, you're going off memory alone and can't back it up. We only have your word for it. That's not evidence. Tangible. No better than just making up sources altogether.

The only other article I can think of that you could be referring to is the CUBE article but that is mostly made up by the editors and doesn't contain an interview from what I recall and while it incorporates elements from Gaiden's plot (anti-Umbrella organization and Leon working for the U.S. government at the same time, Wesker's Report, etc), it mentions nothing about it being retconned. In fact, I don't think any of the developers have ever openly stated that something was retconned (the series contains virtually no retcons anyway).

Doesn't Leon being killed in gaiden invalidate that part of WR?
If you ignore the report, what does the overall canon lose? Esp since uc and dsc have incorporated alot of it. And I'd say there's grounds to ignore it, given it being wrong on at least the two points you mention, and the Sherry debacle.

Just curious. Are you using a translated Japanese version or the English?

I think you're right about that. UC and DC did pretty much take the plot elements introduced in Wesker's Report and work them in. We using the English version but translating specific parts that are iffy, we haven't done a full accurate translation yet.

I may be wrong, but have any of them actually said that? Just because it was ignored after the plot changed doesn't mean they never intended to do something with it. It seems odd that Capcom would allow one of there main characters to be written out like that without Capcom consenting to it, and having some idea about what do with it.

I mean, it seems likely that originally Sherry was going to be a plot point, her being in Wesker's possession. Capcom have dropped intended plot points before.

I don't think it really needs to be said, it's pretty evident. Sugimura's canon never referenced Gaiden once and this wasn't going to change with any of his versions of BH4. People like KylieDog misunderstand the whole Gaiden plot device of the B.O.W. impersonation and get the idea that Leon was actually "infected", which is simply nonsense (by bleeding green blood, even though Gaiden makes it explicitly clear that bleeding green blood means that the subject isn't human, it's the B.O.W.). For one thing, the B.O.W. is made with the t-virus at best, while Leon was infected with the Progenitor virus.

I don't think Sherry was ever in Wesker's possession though, I think that's just a misunderstanding altogether. The Inside of Biohazard The Darkside Chronicles confirms that once she was taken into U.S. custody, Wesker had access to her through his spies in the U.S. Government. She was in his hands regardless. So, they kept that plot point from Wesker's Report but just changed it slightly.

I think Archelon got it in regards to WR being superseded by UC and DC.

[Fruit Salad]

ban news bot

[Dracarys]

I never said the magazine said anything about a retcon, the magazine was talking about RE 3.5 (before it was canned and when it was still due to release) and how Leon became infected.

I said it was likely retconned when RE 3.5 was canned.

[Mr. Spencer]

ban news bot

I agree with this sentiment. Ban that cunt.

[Darkmoon]

I don't think it really needs to be said, it's pretty evident. Sugimura's canon never referenced Gaiden once and this wasn't going to change with any of his versions of BH4. People like KylieDog misunderstand the whole Gaiden plot device of the B.O.W. impersonation and get the idea that Leon was actually "infected", which is simply nonsense (by bleeding green blood, even though Gaiden makes it explicitly clear that bleeding green blood means that the subject isn't human, it's the B.O.W.). For one thing, the B.O.W. is made with the t-virus at best, while Leon was infected with the Progenitor virus.

While I agree that Leon wasn't the thing at the end and it was a B.O.W I also think Leon didn't die. It's my opinion, certainly, but given how unwilling Capcom are to allow a character to be killed off and that Capcom had to have OK'd Gaiden, I suspect if it was cannon he'd have survived, maybe escaping in a rubber dingy he found while hunting for additional hair gel.

I do also suspect it could have been linked to 3.5. Not in the infection - we know Leon becomes infected in the game, we see that in the trailers. But in some other way.

Right now, it's all moot. Neither yourself nor Kylie has any solid evidence one way or another. Until someone produces such it's all speculation.

[News Bot]

While I agree that Leon wasn't the thing at the end and it was a B.O.W I also think Leon didn't die. It's my opinion, certainly, but given how unwilling Capcom are to allow a character to be killed off and that Capcom had to have OK'd Gaiden, I suspect if it was cannon he'd have survived, maybe escaping in a rubber dingy he found while hunting for additional hair gel.

I do also suspect it could have been linked to 3.5. Not in the infection - we know Leon becomes infected in the game, we see that in the trailers. But in some other way.

Right now, it's all moot. Neither yourself nor Kylie has any solid evidence one way or another. Until someone produces such it's all speculation.

Indeed. Regardless, topic isn't about Gaiden and magazines which may or may not exist. Let's get back to Wesker's Report.

[Archelon]

I don't think Sherry was ever in Wesker's possession though, I think that's just a misunderstanding altogether. The Inside of Biohazard The Darkside Chronicles confirms that once she was taken into U.S. custody, Wesker had access to her through his spies in the U.S. Government. She was in his hands regardless. So, they kept that plot point from Wesker's Report but just changed it slightly.

I think they might have originally intended for Wesker to have actually captured Sherry, but once that plot point was dropped, they altered the meaning of the line slightly so that it fit in better with the current plotline.

It's kind of like Ada escaping on Sergei's helicopter. In WR, Wesker says he rescued her, and it seemed to have been strongly implied that he was actually there and saved her himself. Instead, we find out in UC that he just gave her access to the hookshot and told her about Sergei's helicopter.

So it becomes a bit broader of an interpretation of the line rather than completely negating it.

[Bertha]

It's kind of like Ada escaping on Sergei's helicopter. In WR, Wesker says he rescued her, and it seemed to have been strongly implied that he was actually there and saved her himself. Instead, we find out in UC that he just gave her access to the hookshot and told her about Sergei's helicopter.

So it becomes a bit broader of an interpretation of the line rather than completely negating it.

I actually think the idea of Wesker physically being there sounds more logical than an injured woman using a hook shot to grab on to a fast moving helicopter's cargo and remain hanging on, despite the fact that the shockwave of the nuke probably should have knocked her off. Then she either goes completely undetected by Sergei and any people at the location of where they land...or they simply just don't care that a spy with the g-sample is tagging along. I never liked Ada's bit in UC simply because of how out of place it felt. Despite the fact that the facility was going to explode, she somehow manages to find time to bandage herself, escape to the sewers even though you had to take how many train cars/elevators to get there, and then battle through hordes of undead...with only her handgun. Right. I think the hookshot was just a throwback to re4.

Unless Ada was actually working with Sergei and they welcomed her aboard, which I dont think she was?

[Archelon]

I actually think the idea of Wesker physically being there sounds more logical than an injured woman using a hook shot to grab on to a fast moving helicopter's cargo and remain hanging on, despite the fact that the shockwave of the nuke probably should have knocked her off

I don't disagree, but I still think UC takes precedence. Unless ORC decides to change it again and say that Wesker was actually there in Raccoon while everything was going down, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms, given the source.

Despite the fact that the facility was going to explode, she somehow manages to find time to bandage herself, escape to the sewers even though you had to take how many train cars/elevators to get there, and then battle through hordes of undead...with only her handgun.

Don't forget she also somehow managed to collect a tissue fragment from Birkin's corpse, ha ha.

[TheBatMan]

I actually think the idea of Wesker physically being there sounds more logical than an injured woman using a hook shot to grab on to a fast moving helicopter's cargo and remain hanging on, despite the fact that the shockwave of the nuke probably should have knocked her off. Then she either goes completely undetected by Sergei and any people at the location of where they land...or they simply just don't care that a spy with the g-sample is tagging along. I never liked Ada's bit in UC simply because of how out of place it felt. Despite the fact that the facility was going to explode, she somehow manages to find time to bandage herself, escape to the sewers even though you had to take how many train cars/elevators to get there, and then battle through hordes of undead...with only her handgun. Right. I think the hookshot was just a throwback to re4.

Unless Ada was actually working with Sergei and they welcomed her aboard, which I dont think she was?

I'd say the idea of Wesker being in Raccoon City and physically rescuing Ada from the lab minutes before it exploded is much more implausible given the time constraints.
Also you do realise that Death's Door takes place a full day after the lab exploded yes? She obviously patched herself up after escaping the lab with the sample then went to the sewers.