Muscles Glasses vs. Jensen Ackles (Or: Team Chris vs. Team Leon)

[Darkmoon]

Sure...the heroes' achievement goes with an enemies' weakness to bring about his downfall. But it needs to be balanced out. In RE5, Chris' main achievement was getting Jill back, who promptly told how to win by stabbing Wesker with the right thing. He also successfully injected Wesker with the correct sharp pointy thing. Beyond that, it's Wesker screwing up. There should never be a moment in a story where the supposedly intelligent bad guy leaves the good guy with a vital asset to torment them. When those seven minutes were up Wesker should have reached down Chris' throat and pulled his entire skeleton out in a single jerk. Instead, he wanders off, leaving them with exactly what they'll need to defeat him.

At that point, nothing Chris had done or could do would have changed the outcome if Wesker had decided he want Chris' face as a Halloween mask. It's his own decision to leave that saves Chris, providing him the chance to get what he needed to kill Wesker. You don't see the Ring Wraiths giving Hobbits a sporting chance or taunting them or trying to show they're better - they shank the hairy footed one. It's the heroes bravery and skill allowing them to get out of there, and later take advantage of mistakes, that wins the day.

Again, even as late as the volcano, Wesker could have bolted. He was still likely super enough that Chris would never catch him, and once he was powerful again Chris would never be able to stop him. No doubt he had back up facilities across the globe, so he could start again. His plan was already a failure. But instead he decides to infect himself and try to kill Chris.

[omegaSTARS]

Go Smiley!
At least Chris is smart enough to take advantage of the situation in which Wesker put himself into.
And then: POW right in the kisser!
People could say that Leon would do the same but we'll never know...because Wesker didn't give a damn about Leon as much as he did to Chris and that is the truth.
Chris exploited Wesker's weakness towards him in order to lead in his defeat.

Like some of you said Wesker maybe guilty of his own demise but it was Chris that fought Wesker till the end with the help of his team partners because he knew after years of experience fighting evildoers the best way to win was teaming up.

So in conclusion Chris achieved far more than ''sidestories'' Leon ever did.
I rest my case!

[Grem]

Chris' determination and Wesker's arrogance combined was what killed Wesker.

[Joey3264]

i'm not exactly sure what focus of this debate is being argued (who's character design is better? storyline importance? ect)
I always liked chris as a character a lot more than leon, but when you put two fictional characters and argue "who is better?" there are so many different ways you could view the argument

and i thought it was odd yet amusing when Wesker decided not to escape at the volcano part. LOL he died because he just couldn't let go of his grudge

[Smiley]

Sure...the heroes' achievement goes with an enemies' weakness to bring about his downfall. But it needs to be balanced out. In RE5, Chris' main achievement was getting Jill back, who promptly told how to win by stabbing Wesker with the right thing. He also successfully injected Wesker with the correct sharp pointy thing. Beyond that, it's Wesker screwing up. There should never be a moment in a story where the supposedly intelligent bad guy leaves the good guy with a vital asset to torment them. When those seven minutes were up Wesker should have reached down Chris' throat and pulled his entire skeleton out in a single jerk. Instead, he wanders off, leaving them with exactly what they'll need to defeat him.

At that point, nothing Chris had done or could do would have changed the outcome if Wesker had decided he want Chris' face as a Halloween mask. It's his own decision to leave that saves Chris, providing him the chance to get what he needed to kill Wesker. You don't see the Ring Wraiths giving Hobbits a sporting chance or taunting them or trying to show they're better - they shank the hairy footed one. It's the heroes bravery and skill allowing them to get out of there, and later take advantage of mistakes, that wins the day.

Again, even as late as the volcano, Wesker could have bolted. He was still likely super enough that Chris would never catch him, and once he was powerful again Chris would never be able to stop him. No doubt he had back up facilities across the globe, so he could start again. His plan was already a failure. But instead he decides to infect himself and try to kill Chris.

It's no argument that RE5 was Wesker at his worst, but at the height of his plans coming into fruition his arrogance and focus had gotten the better of him. This is exactly why he lost in Code Veronica. He underestimated Alexia's strength and bailed mid-battle leaving Chris to fight her. During the battle with Chris he thought he could toy around with him showing off his powers. Meanwhile Chris used his environment to his advantage and fazed him with the collapsing pipes. Wesker lost sight of the state of the base and that's why he had half his face burned.

With RE5 it's a slightly different matter. Depending on how you play that seven minute battle you can also weaken Wesker before the time runs out and cause him to flee. They excused the finale of the seven minute battle because Wesker had to finalize some preparations and left Jill to take care of Chris. To a character like Wesker he would rather torment Chris using Jill.

Another thing to take into account is that RE5 has this "beat you over the head" theme about cooperation in your partner. Maybe, just maybe it was because the game itself was co-op.

Chris through the help of his team managed to stop Wesker's plans. Jill wouldn't have told them of his weakness if Chris had simply killed her. But in his efforts to save her they actually learn helpful information. Sheva even took part in saving Jill and killing Wesker. Sheva was even the one who took the needle from Excella that was later used on Wesker. These are pieces of why the good guys achieve. But Wesker on the other hand uses and abuses his subordinates. His most loyal one is infected and left to mutate while he shows no remorse for his actions. He leaves them for Chris to handle so that he can continue his work. Acting cocky that Chris won't make it further. But he does. He and Sheva get on the plane, inject Wesker, crash it before the virus can spread, and against the odds fight him on a volcano using team work to maneuver around their environment.

With LotR the most arrogant thing Sauron could do is underestimate that a hobbit could carry the ring with the intention of destroying it through his land. Frodo doesn't do this alone as he embraces the help from Sam and the other friends fighting the good fight. In the end though Gollum is the one who destroys the ring only by taking it from Frodo and merrily dancing over having his precious back to the point where he falls to his death. Witch King, Saruman and other villains all suffer a fate of underestimating their opponents and power seeking.

Wesker in RE5 becomes the typical villain. Cliche' obviously, but Chris prevails because he's willing to cooperate, plan out, and care for his own. If Chris didn't search for Claire and Jill he would have never uncovered any of these plans for world domination and sought fit to stop them. At the same time the villains cannot die by themselves. If there was no Chris then Wesker would have won. The BSAA would have retreated, Sheva and the others wouldn't have any second hand knowledge of Wesker or Jill, and the world would be doomed. You need an opposing force like Chris to break Wesker down to the point of desperation.

[Dracarys]

Actually...Chris didn't stop Umbrella. Wesker did. Nothing that Chris did actually affected the outcome of the trial for Umbrella - it was entirely Wesker getting hold of the Red Queen and leaking stuff that did the job. I can't remember if Chris was given the job of finding the evidence, but it was Wesker's doing and scheming.

Because going around knocking out Umbrella bases with Jill didn't affect Umbrella at all? Wesker may have helped seal away Umbrella publicly but physcially Chris and Jill took them down.

[Darkmoon]

Because going around knocking out Umbrella bases with Jill didn't affect Umbrella at all? Wesker may have helped seal away Umbrella publicly but physcially Chris and Jill took them down.

...how many Umbrella bases other than the Russian one did they take out, that didn't blow up? Because it's not exactly subtly hinted that Wesker sent them there to distract Sergei while he entered and stole the Red Queen data...taking most of the evidence the facility had with him. And if they'd taken out two or three others, surely there would have been enough evidence to take Umbrella down and Wesker's...help...wouldn't have been required to defeat them legally?

I think they stopped outbreak, but most of Umbrella's facilities seem to blow up when an outbreak occurs. They wouldn't have enough evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKfJ7V7DZCI - from 5.20 to see Wesker talking about how Chris and Jill were too quick to pat themselves on the back, that it was not justice or fate that defeated Umbrella and that only power defeats power. Around 6.00 to see him talking about using them as pawns against pawns and such. Somehow, on an apparently spur of the moment mission, he has access to there communication.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIRnPTf8s44 - the credits, mentioning how no one was sure where the evidence came from, mystery witnesses about Spencer's involvement...in other words, Wesker did it. If it was Chris, Jill or co it would have there name all over everything. They're heroes, after all, with nothing to hide.

[DarkMemories]

Wesker didn't give a damn about Leon as much as he did to Chris and that is the truth.

Funny, I seem to recall him being pretty adament about Leon's death in RE4...or did I imagine him sicking Ada and then Krauser on Leon?

Wesker considers anyone who survived Raccoon City a threat; that's pretty much canon.

[Smiley]

He only wants Leon dead out of being a distraction to the main objective. It's also a way for him to show Ada who's boss. With Chris however, it's much more personal.

[DarkMemories]

Which should have been all the more reason for him to kill Chris outright rather than toy with him. Yet another reason I hate RE5.

[Darkmoon]

I can see why he'd want to torment Chris. But once he revealed Jill was under his control, that was it. Victory complete, kill Chris and hump his corpse. You can't break him any more and he's a danger, albeit a small one.

[Pikminister]

i'm not exactly sure what focus of this debate is being argued (who's character design is better? storyline importance? ect)

According to the wording used on the poll, it seems to be about who would you rather dance the horizontal mambo with.

But users went well beyond that and its about anything, really.

Right now, it seems to be about which one is getting more of Wesker's attention (when he was alive).

[Smiley]

It's best over all character really. In just about any aspect you can think of.

[Pikminister]

Er... so who won this thing?

This should've been a cosplayer match up. See who looks more like the character.





Another opportunity missed.

[Smiley]

It's not wise to upset a Redfield.