Placement of characters and importance in the series (spoilers)

[Smiley]

Trying to avoid picking pieces of quotes just to respond to. The gameFAQs routine is not that good. And if the quotes do get any longer we might as well make a separate topic for them as this is about the characters more than anything else.

I name drop Alice for the sheer fact that she is the first super powered protagonist of Resident Evil. Jake and Sherry are soon to follow when it comes to the games. Not much of an argument to refute really. We've established Capcom referencing the movies, and using elements from them. Protagonists with powers was inevitable, but frankly Resident Evil knows the one and only Alice to have started that train wreck. Certainly wasn't Dante since his game is DMC. Certainly wasn't Leon since the RE4 we got had him with no powers.

Just a simple truth.

As for RE6 itself what we're being promoted with is more action than horror. You say Leon and to a lesser extent Chris. Judging off the combat, enemies, and characters that is being shown so far I'd say you're going to be more in tune with RE5 game play at best than anything else. Possibly Revelations, but keep in mind the co-op factor and re-skinned majini aren't much of a derail from how things were done in RE5. A gothic environment might make the setting spooky, but that's been restricted to Leon. So the closest you'll really get here is 1/3 of the game dedicated to some form of classic horror.

The pursuer for RE6 looks to be a section. We do see Jake fighting enemies multiple times in Wesker type maneuvers. The chase scenes unlike RE5 are filled with the over-the-top action of Jake and Sherry running faster than a speeding bullet, leaping tall buildings in a single bound. There's a diminished level of fear from those trailers when there followed up by the quirky antics of Jake shrugging BOWs off as "extra" for his rebellious nature.

But I'll be happy to let RE6 prove me wrong on scaring me with the Jake section. We've seen it fail with RE5 and a lesser extent with RE4 using human characters. What makes you think super powers will help?

Whether powers were planned or not in earlier games isn't saying much here. They were scrapped or shifted to a new type of game. The reason doesn't matter so much as whether it was executed or not and it wasn't. The movies flourished with a super powered hero and now RE wants to jump in with "the son of Wesker" as their calling card. Good for them. Still doesn't fit with the games to date. Even Wesker having a son is silly.

The older games aren't tarnished. Never claimed they were. The new games though are convoluted and unsure of what they want to be. RE5 wants to establish itself as an action game and horror game. RE6 wants to do both while throwing in super powers. Three scenarios trying to aim for a different audience and achieve a different type of game to them is indeed a mash up. They want to make as many people happy, but I doubt it'll work that way. Even if the Leon scenario provides the type of horror I genuinely like in the classic games (which I still have doubts over) it'll only make up a 1/3 of the experience.

Still, the marketing is much bigger than ever. If I knew about RE6 in advance I'd bank on that more than ORC in sales. ORC was an action spin off bringing four players together. RE6 wants to grab the attention of purists, action junkies and newcomers with co-op, mercenaries from the get go, and plenty of action. Not to mention it's a main numbered entry. So even if I'm disappointed in the direction this sequel is going I must admit I admire the marketing behind this game.

[News Bot]

And that's as far as that debate is going to go without going around in circles. I understand where you're coming from, there's just a distinct lack of knowledge to start flailing the game and I think you are too attached to the old-school games, in which case you will never actually change your opinion because you're dead-set on them being perfect representations of horror. The movies don't inspire the games beyond simple homages that bear no resemblance to their movie depictions. The series has been action-focused since 1997 and the general theme of the series was emphasis on "survival" with "horror" elements, which BH4 and BH5 still fit into (the latter less so), not downright horror. As technology has progressed, so has the action. You were in for it as soon as you hopped on the series fanwagon. Complaining now is just futile, especially when the majority of people prefer it that way.

I would still prefer if the development team had more people that actually knew how to convey horror working on it, but we'll just have to wait and see how they do with the current members who have quite a lot of horror experience under their belts. So far I see no disappointing aspects of the game. That may change closer to release, but there's nothing to suggest it'll be as bad as BH5 right now. Forced comparisons to the movies don't change that and from a business sense, you cannot blame CAPCOM for going with what people like, and there's no better way to tell that than through sales figures, which have proven themselves quite extensively.

I do hope they develop more Revelations type games with emphasis on horror atmosphere, but I can see why they wouldn't bother again.

[Smiley]

I can blame Capcom for thinking that the best way to appease their massive audience is to put all their eggs in one basket. That's foolish from an artistic standpoint, but very likely to be successful financially.

I never denied a preference to the early games, but my favorite game came in the form of a remake made in 2002. Sure it's a ten year gap, but given that I've had Zero, RE4, Revelations and RE5 as main entries to follow you can't blame a guy for knowing what he likes in his Resident Evil.

And we can go back and forth on movies, but casuals and the basic of fans do not follow original text, supplemental material or scrapped concepts. They follow the product as its released. So if you can't accept my view on movie inspirations from the games I feel bad for how you'll feel with the array of people that compare Alice and Jake/Sherry after RE6 comes out. Cause you know it will happen whether you, yourself believe it or not.

[Det. Beauregard]

Barry "over-the-hill" Burton and Parker "PHAT" Luciani say hi. Both are not exactly pretty boys.

Main female characters are rarely unattractive in games, as it is simply bad marketing. This goes for male characters, too, but there's a bit more leeway there since the demographic these kinds of games are marketed towards are generally younger males.

And it's funny you assume that the older male demographic is somehow less captivated by a good looking character model.

In my experience, the older male demographic (and by "older" I mean late 20s/early 30s) cares more about gameplay than anything else.

The Sherry we knew in RE2 was no super powered child so for her to show up as a Government lackey with powers is off putting. And who would believe Wesker had a son? They were created for a new generation, but their place in the series feels very forced and jarring because the series never needed super powered fighters as protagonists.

I agree. I don't mind Sherry returning, and Wesker having a son doesn't really bother me, either. What I don't like is that they are super-powered with regenerating health. Capcom can butter it up with story all they want, but this is easy to see through - they're trying to be like most of the other games out there. It's quite evident that this series has massively lost its originality after RE4.

I still don't see the complaint when we haven't even seen what the extent of their powers are yet. Jake's powers appear to be time-limited, Sherry hasn't shown any and their scenario is focused on running from things.

If it's possible to complete Jake and Sherry's scenario without ever using a melee move, I might enjoy it a bit. If not, I won't.

[News Bot]

I can blame Capcom for thinking that the best way to appease their massive audience is to put all their eggs in one basket. That's foolish from an artistic standpoint, but very likely to be successful financially.

I never denied a preference to the early games, but my favorite game came in the form of a remake made in 2002. Sure it's a ten year gap, but given that I've had Zero, RE4, Revelations and RE5 as main entries to follow you can't blame a guy for knowing what he likes in his Resident Evil.

And we can go back and forth on movies, but casuals and the basic of fans do not follow original text, supplemental material or scrapped concepts. They follow the product as its released. So if you can't accept my view on movie inspirations from the games I feel bad for how you'll feel with the array of people that compare Alice and Jake/Sherry after RE6 comes out. Cause you know it will happen whether you, yourself believe it or not.

That is based on your first-hand experience I imagine?

I like most of the games equally based on their own merits, and for varying reasons. I rather like GUN SURVIVOR and would like it to be remade in the old gameplay style, because it maintained a horror atmosphere despite being a first-person shooter. GUN SURVIVOR 4 still maintains the old horror atmosphere despite being far more action-orientated and even being more low-budget and "punk" than usual.

They don't have to follow them, but when you claim something that is clearly wrong, that doesn't make you exempt from the fact that you're wrong just because things never came to fruition until now despite being long-planned. They still came before the movies, and the movies got its inspiration from them. Not the other way around, and there's conversely no way around that. I could care less whether anyone compares Alice to anyone, because I know they're simply incorrect and have limited knowledge. I point it out to you for that reason; to correct you. Whether you believe it or not is fairly irrelevant when it's a fact, it's only when you challenge it with more unsubstantiated opinion-pieces that I actually dig deeper into it.

[Smiley]

I'm a capitalist first and a gamer second. RE5 played their marketing right and it sold very well. RE6 will follow because it's pulling in everyone and trying to make people believe that this one game has it all. As if having it all means the quality itself is good. RE6 doesn't have a distinct identity though. It wants to be too many things. And it's hard to base a game on its own merit when it doesn't even know what merit it's supposed to stand on.


You can "correct" me all you like. But the final product will always be what people ultimately take into account. A super powered protagonist was conceived from Alice in the grand scheme of things and it will always be the introduction into Resident Evil as we know it. Something which carries over in the games as of now. It didn't carry over then regardless if it tried and failed. It does now at a time where we're accustomed to the one from the movies and the inspiration from homages to the look and feel will always be noted.

[News Bot]

I'm a capitalist first and a gamer second. RE5 played their marketing right and it sold very well. RE6 will follow because it's pulling in everyone and trying to make people believe that this one game has it all. As if having it all means the quality itself is good. RE6 doesn't have a distinct identity though. It wants to be too many things. And it's hard to base a game on its own merit when it doesn't even know what merit it's supposed to stand on.

You can "correct" me all you like. But the final product will always be what people ultimately take into account. A super powered protagonist was conceived from Alice in the grand scheme of things and it will always be the introduction into Resident Evil as we know it. Something which carries over in the games as of now. It didn't carry over then regardless if it tried and failed. It does now at a time where we're accustomed to the one from the movies and the inspiration from homages to the look and feel will always be noted.

First-hand impressions again?

Your attempts to try and argue against a simple fact are cute and everything, but this is getting tired now. Perception means literally nothing, and super powered protagonists were conceived and used in the games much sooner, and the developers have always had them in mind (the producer of the superhuman versions of BH4 was, incidentally, Kobayashi). The fact that you attempted to limit your initial argument that superhumans in general were caused by the movies should already be a clear enough sign that this is a debate you're not very prepared for. The developers and simple history state that you are wrong. Therefore you are wrong. No amount of "perception" changes that. Just because you were misinformed does not mean you are the one who's right when nothing happens to line up with your opinion. Your arguments right now are simply unrealistic and rely far too much on opinion. Why you keep bringing up the fact that not everyone has read supplemental material or interviews etc is unknown to me, because that is completely irrelevant and does not affect whether the information is true or not. It sounds more like denial and selective-reading, which I thought was beyond you.

[Smiley]

Super powered protagonists were not used sooner than RE6. This game marks the introduction of super powered protagonists in the game play. That's the simple truth. Scrapped ideas fall behind. Nothing boosted this direction more than the success of the films of which the clear homages and influences were noted and haven't been brushed away. These are the products as they were released to the public. And the public is what they keep in mind for their next product. For a series that apparently doesn't borrow from the films they do a hell of a job disproving that with each iteration.

I'm basing this on my evidence being the products themselves. The "what could have been" discussions would be limitless. What ultimately matters will always be the actual product.

If you find that to be unrealistic or selective that's not really my problem. You're just going to have to make due. If DMC was going to be RE then it would be. If Leon was going to be super powered he would be. If super protagonists were plotted to be part of the games early on they would have been. They weren't. They only became a factor in the spread of RE games that have taken direct and indirect inspirations from the films. Kobayashi is a Capcom figure who attaches his name and worth to even the Resident Evil films. If we're to give him credit alongside Anderson I wouldn't be against that notion.

[News Bot]

Super powered protagonists were not used sooner than RE6. This game marks the introduction of super powered protagonists in the game play. That's the simple truth. Scrapped ideas fall behind. Nothing boosted this direction more than the success of the films of which the clear homages and influences were noted and haven't been brushed away. These are the products as they were released to the public. And the public is what they keep in mind for their next product. For a series that apparently doesn't borrow from the films they do a hell of a job disproving that with each iteration.

I'm basing this on my evidence being the products themselves. The "what could have been" discussions would be limitless. What ultimately matters will always be the actual product.

If you find that to be unrealistic or selective that's not really my problem. You're just going to have to make due. If DMC was going to be RE then it would be. If Leon was going to be super powered he would be. If super protagonists were plotted to be part of the games early on they would have been. They weren't. They only became a factor in the spread of RE games that have taken direct and indirect inspirations from the films. Kobayashi is a Capcom figure who attaches his name and worth to even the Resident Evil films. If we're to give him credit alongside Anderson I wouldn't be against that notion.

Here we go again. First off, just because it was not used in the end does not mean that it wasn't very much a reality at the time, and continued to be until it was finally playable until now, and every last element was kept in the series. You're arguing semantics here and completely ignoring everything that flat-out states that you're wrong. BH6 and Kobayashi are taking a cue from scrapped ideas, not a cue from the movies. That is all there is to it and it's all you've been able to prove thus far; an obvious point. Anything beyond that is made-up in your head.

You do know that a producer in video games is a lot different from a producer in movies? A movie producer usually solely handles the budget and acts as an intermediary between the crew and the studio (Kobayashi didn't have to fulfill this function for obvious reasons). A video game producer can be involved in many different aspects, and CAPCOM actually have a system where the producer essentially acts as the director (this was the case with Takeuchi). Kobayashi had no involvement in any of the Anderson movies aside from handling the money on CAPCOM's end, since I believe they decided to part-finance the movies following the success of the first one.

[Smiley]

I'm arguing something finalized. With actual influences are homages used. Things considered and not used do not determine the game. The game determines the game. And it's public perception that Capcom looks at with their next product. Something that reflects the convoluted state the series is currently in.

If you think they're not taking from the movies that is to be blinded by the products themselves. Games and movies are different. But a producer is still a position that doesn't stray too far from either one in terms of handling budget and being a go-to figure for some of the big decisions. He was representing Capcom and their support. So it's no surprise at all.

Since I do not like how we've driven our discussion further off the rails over something unrelated to my actual topic on the characters and their importance I must suggest you make a separate topic if you really wish to continue discussing the movie's influence. As it stands it's just part of something I do not approve on when it comes to Jake and Sherry who represent the super powered crowd in the game's lineup. Disagree if you like.

[News Bot]

I'm arguing something finalized. With actual influences are homages used. Things considered and not used do not determine the game. The game determines the game. And it's public perception that Capcom looks at with their next product. Something that reflects the convoluted state the series is currently in.

If you think they're not taking from the movies that is to be blinded by the products themselves. Games and movies are different. But a producer is still a position that doesn't stray too far from either one in terms of handling budget and being a go-to figure for some of the big decisions. He was representing Capcom and their support. So it's no surprise at all.

Since I do not like how we've driven our discussion further off the rails over something unrelated to my actual topic on the characters and their importance I must suggest you make a separate topic if you really wish to continue discussing the movie's influence. As it stands it's just part of something I do not approve on when it comes to Jake and Sherry who represent the super powered crowd in the game's lineup. Disagree if you like.

There's no evidence to suggest that they're taking from the movies, just as there was no evidence to support the supposition that Sheva and co-op were introduced in BH5 because of one random black lady's racism accusations on a blog.

On the contrary, there is evidence to support everything I have said. From interviews (from about a dozen separate people all saying the same thing), development notes and the games themselves. You cling to any little coincidence when it slightly supports your personal views, but it's simply not the case. The games have never taken anything from the movies outside of two very small homages that were executed in the games completely differently, while the director of the movies has gone on record to state that the superhuman element of the movies was inspired by the games. They are on the same level as the Jaws references.

Kobayashi can't exactly refuse to do his job, and considering the task was relatively simple and involved no actual participation in the movie, why would he? You're still clutching for some pretty thin straws in a frankly embarrassing attempt to attack his credibility and draw a laughably tangible link to the movies. Why would CAPCOM not support the movies when it is their license and they make them a lot of money? For being a self-professed "capitalist" you sure don't have a very good idea of how business works. CAPCOM also supported the S.D. Perry novels, Wildstorm comics and Hong Kong comics, but don't actually give a shit about them. Then take a look at some other things Kobayashi has produced, such as the Archives books, and you can plainly see when the dedication and work kicks in. CAPCOM have no real creative involvement in the movies, novels or comics. They give the director/writer/artist free reign as long as it does not infringe on certain stipulations.

The games also had super powered protagonists before the movies were ever a concept, regardless of whether the idea was implemented into the final game. It was still used in every single build, then changed solely by Mikami (who instead made the antagonists superhuman) and up until that point, every single game (and scrapped game) had superhumans as a pivotal plot element. The idea was still very much on the mind of the developers, one of whom is Kobayashi who just so happens to be producing a game with superhuman protagonists once again and has openly stated that action was always a heavy component of the series, which is obvious if you so much as play the fucking games... To say that the movies suddenly sparked some sort of superhuman action Renaissance, when it is openly stated and quite clear if you pay any attention that the developers had always planned to implement superhuman protagonists, is completely contrived. The movies having one is of zero relevance, it's because Anderson took an idea directly from the games at a time when the developers were actually making a game with a superhuman protagonist, which was a plot element that remained until it was finally introduced in BH6. You're only pushing that supposition because it happens to fit your convenient and very incorrect view.

It's the same with the "clone" crap too. Games did it first. Anderson took it and made it retarded. Games use it again in a higher capacity in an in-universe time when it makes sense and suddenly people jump on the MOVIE INSPIRATION bandwagon and start ranting and raving about how Anderson and Mikami/Kobayashi/Sasaki/Murata/Kawata/Seto/Takenaka and co. are laughing all the way to the bank. It's conspiracy theorist logic, and just as amusing.

[Smiley]

If there's something laughable and embarrassing to be taken from this it's your constant need to stray off topic and continue this back and forth argument we've already had repeatedly. As I said, if you wish to continue then by all means make a separate topic for it. There's no need for further drivel here. Your last post was bigger than the previous now, and now you're bringing in the clones, comics, novels, etc. So if you're really not finished then take the 'Capcom rips from the movies' discussion elsewhere.

[Code_R]

Was it really all the closure she needed? As you just said, fans have been speculating about Sherry's fate for years.

She was better off dead or MIA or simply in witness protection of some kind.

[Smiley]

I don't know about dead. But I always thought that if she did return in a game it would be something Claire should be devoted to.

[Pikminister]

That's why I was pissed at her absence in 6 and how Sherry's bio practically gives Leon all the credit and lumps Claire with the "others" that survived.