Placement of characters and importance in the series (spoilers)

[Smiley]

You should make a topic if you want to talk about it. It's as simple as that. You don't agree with me and want to divulge in discussing the aspects of how the new games are influenced by the movies. So make a topic. I'll happily continue it there. But after asking you repeatedly to remain on topic I find it problematic how you insist to derail. But yes, I sum up my stance with the sheer confidence that everything I've been saying is laid out in the current lineup of games.

For Sherry to get one and not Carlos only ensures that they had some idea in mind that they wanted to clear with her character. From her and Claire's epilogues we get the reunion. Which we have yet to properly get.

And making Sherry superhuman is a no-go area, especially in survival horror. You could spend all day trying to make a convincing stance that it's very possible to make "character A" super human. But for this series that's a bad direction to take that character if they're protagonists. Especially ones you're going to be playing as them.

[News Bot]

For Sherry to get one and not Carlos only ensures that they had some idea in mind that they wanted to clear with her character. From her and Claire's epilogues we get the reunion. Which we have yet to properly get.

Thank you for proving my point that you rely on unfounded speculation. Already explained this:

BH3 was written as a side-story initially. Carlos and Nicholai were from that time. So from the start, it was stipulated that they would never appear in a main game again. Rebecca wasn't included because, while CODE:Veronica's scenario was finished at the time, the scenario for BH0 was not. There's a little more to it but I have to keep that quiet for a while.

And making Sherry superhuman is a no-go area, especially in survival horror. You could spend all day trying to make a convincing stance that it's very possible to make "character A" super human. But for this series that's a bad direction to take that character if they're protagonists. Especially ones you're going to be playing as them.

By your own admission the series is supposedly no longer survival horror, and by the developers own admission, neither is BH6 ("dramatic horror"). Survival horror is not limited to fixed camera angles and tank controls. That's quite a self-defeating argument.

[Smiley]

They had never intended to bring any of these characters back? Why do HUNK and Barry have epilogues, then? Just curious.

There were stories in mind at the time involving Barry and HUNK.

[News Bot]

There were stories in mind at the time involving Barry and HUNK.

Both wrong. By the time BH3 actually came out, the story involving HUNK was long-scrapped and BH4 (which became DMC) was being developed. Gaiden wasn't written until around CODE:Veronica's release, and had nothing to do with the main series.

[Smiley]

Thank you for proving my point that you rely on unfounded speculation. Already explained this:

By your own admission the series is supposedly no longer survival horror, and by the developers own admission, neither is BH6 ("dramatic horror"). Survival horror is not limited to fixed camera angles and tank controls. That's quite a self-defeating argument.

Saying "I have to keep it quiet" doesn't do much for you.

Nothing from what I said was baseless. RE3 is a side story. Sherry, unlike Carlos, was a character they had aspects left open for. In a way, it sounds as though you agree.

You yourself can only guestimate on what they're doing with the "Dramatic Horror" mention and the actual meaning behind it. But why waste time? If you're going to argue that it's ok to bring super powered protagonists in the next main sequel by changing survival to dramatic then I'd still say it's a bad direction to take the series in.

[Smiley]

Both wrong. By the time BH3 actually came out, the story involving HUNK was long-scrapped and BH4 (which became DMC) was being developed. Gaiden wasn't written until around CODE:Veronica's release, and had nothing to do with the main series.

Scrapped and/or placed in what ended up as non canon games. But yes, stories were in mind. Especially with Barry.

[News Bot]

Scrapped and/or placed in what ended up as non canon games. But yes, stories were in mind. Especially with Barry.

HUNK's game was scrapped very early into development in mid-1998, long before BH3 was completed, so he was able to get an epilogue and wasn't ever planned for another story. Barry was never planned for a storyline at the time, that's why he was also able to get an epilogue (like Ada and Sherry). BH3 was released in 1999. CODE:Veronica Complete was released in 2001, at which point the scenario for Gaiden (which was always a non-canon game, it didn't "end up") was still only a vague concept and wasn't completed until a year later.

I like how you seem to know exactly what every single writer was thinking.

Saying "I have to keep it quiet" doesn't do much for you.

Nothing from what I said was baseless. RE3 is a side story. Sherry, unlike Carlos, was a character they had aspects left open for. In a way, it sounds as though you agree.

You yourself can only guestimate on what they're doing with the "Dramatic Horror" mention and the actual meaning behind it. But why waste time? If you're going to argue that it's ok to bring super powered protagonists in the next main sequel by changing survival to dramatic then I'd still say it's a bad direction to take the series in.

You said they had an idea what to do with her character (nothing to suggest this), not that it was left open. They did however say that she was important, but this importance was explained in supplemental material. We have yet to hear why they decided to bring her back in BH6.

The series was taken in that direction in the second game, and superhuman characters were planned for a long time and developed almost to completion (Devil May Cry is just BH4 with a rewritten scenario and minor changes). They were scrapped due to external conditions at CAPCOM, rather than because the direction wasn't what they wanted. I have yet to see anyone attack Mikami, who created the series and also stated that he wanted action elements, for being the one to bring it to its current action-orientated nature. Say what you want about BH5, what Mikami gave back, while being a masterpiece of a game, hardly did the series any favors in regards to horror.

[Smiley]

They did have an idea. Never said it was followed up on. The same can be said for Jessica. They have an after-the-credits scene. There's an idea in mind if they wanted her and Raymond to have this scene together in the left open ending. But whether it goes in that direction or never comes to light remains to be seen.

Her reason for RE6 can only be guessed, but it seems as though the story calls for using her and Jake to bring in a new generation of fans with their super powered game play. The pairing of Wesker's son and Birkin's daughter is to draw fans on the obvious reminder that their parents were together. So you've got comparisons and contrasts to how the fathers and children will play out.

And yes, Gaiden did end up non-canon.

[News Bot]

They did have an idea. Never said it was followed up on. The same can be said for Jessica. They have an after-the-credits scene. There's an idea in mind if they wanted her and Raymond to have this scene together in the left open ending. But whether it goes in that direction or never comes to light remains to be seen.

Her reason for RE6 can only be guessed, but it seems as though the story calls for using her and Jake to bring in a new generation of fans with their super powered game play. The pairing of Wesker's son and Birkin's daughter is to draw fans on the obvious reminder that their parents were together. So you've got comparisons and contrasts to how the fathers and children will play out.

That's not an "idea", that's a cliffhanger to leave things open. The writers tend to change with each game, so this policy (which was used in most games) was enacted from the very first game in the series in order to give subsequent writers freedom. An "idea" would be "we are going to do this and that with this character", not "we are going to leave this character open for you to write something else". This is also stated by the developers, specifically in "ANOTHER SIDE OF BIOHAZARD". Can you provide a source for anything you've said? When I asked Kawamura directly about Sherry (in fact saying whether or not they had an idea for her at the time), he said that nothing was planned and whether or not she would ever appear again was left to the discretion of other writers.

That's all very premature speculation. Not saying it's wrong, it very well could be the case, but it's just speculation. As is almost everything you've brought up here so far.

And yes, Gaiden did end up non-canon.

Gaiden was non-canon from its conception and had nothing to do with the main series (actual quote from the developers in "BIOHAZARD THE ELEMENTS"). What is your point? It has the same amount of relevance to the series as the Wildstorm comics do.

[Darkmoon]

Utterly irrelevant conversation to topic is irrelevant. There are other topics (lots...and lots...and lots of topics) devoted to arguing series detail like this - this is one for fan opinions on whether characters should die.

[AsteroidBlues]

Utterly irrelevant conversation to topic is irrelevant. There are other topics (lots...and lots...and lots of topics) devoted to arguing series detail like this - this is one for fan opinions on whether characters should die.

Oh, then if that's all that you people are on about I'll end the conversation once and for all so we can all go back to singing around the campfire....

Yes. Characters should die. The real topic should be (and I believe still is) WILL characters die?

[Smiley]

And idea is an impression or concept which may or may not be abstract. Even if another writer has to step in and create a new story, what we're left open with shows that these characters were part of something that wasn't finished yet. HUNK didn't just end with RE3. He was still brought up in Code Veronica, the true sequel to RE2. Barry came back in Gaiden which at the time had no problems being canon. Your "developer said" is missing a quote. Barry was also considered for RE5.

The thing is that RE3's epilogues were partially fulfilled for the cast. Barry and HUNK had missed opportunities and ended up as nothing more than extras in Mercenaries.



Speaking of missed opportunities, Umbrella Chronicles was meant to display the fall of Umbrella. A game that's primarily focused on gun play with the wiimote lacked the most essential character ever associated with guns. And if Barry was in with Chris and Jill to stop Umbrella and atone for betraying them, his character should have been in it for the long haul and been part of the attack on the Russian base.

[News Bot]

And idea is an impression or concept which may or may not be abstract. Even if another writer has to step in and create a new story, what we're left open with shows that these characters were part of something that wasn't finished yet. HUNK didn't just end with RE3. He was still brought up in Code Veronica, the true sequel to RE2. Barry came back in Gaiden which at the time had no problems being canon. Your "developer said" is missing a quote. Barry was also considered for RE5.

The thing is that RE3's epilogues were partially fulfilled for the cast. Barry and HUNK had missed opportunities and ended up as nothing more than extras in Mercenaries.

Speaking of missed opportunities, Umbrella Chronicles was meant to display the fall of Umbrella. A game that's primarily focused on gun play with the wiimote lacked the most essential character ever associated with guns. And if Barry was in with Chris and Jill to stop Umbrella and atone for betraying them, his character should have been in it for the long haul and been part of the attack on the Russian base.

And yet the writers themselves say very precisely that they didn't have an idea. That is an outright contradiction of what you just said, but apparently they are wrong and you know what goes on in their minds better than they do. Never said HUNK ended, just that his game did. Sorry, but Gaiden was never canon regardless of whether you think it had "no problems being canon" (it did). That's completely irrelevant and incredibly nonsensical reasoning. HUNK dying, Ada quitting the spy business, the G-Virus being lost and Sherry escaping to Canada were canon at one point according to that wickydicky logic. Might as well throw in the Perry novels and Anderson movies while you're at it. They were never canon. They were written as non-canon, therefore they were non-canon from the beginning.

Barry being considered for BH5 doesn't mean much, a lot of things were considered for BH5 and didn't get beyond the concept stage. Funny how you say that planned material doesn't matter (which actually reached the late-development stage) and then use it whenever it suits your argument. Pathetic.

I did give quotes from the developers, I don't see how putting the quote tags around would make much difference since I merely paraphrased them, and I would rather wait until the full translations are featured on PU.

[Smiley]

Hunk never ended, but his game did.... Which means zilch. The character was prominent enough to be recurring and his epilogue and file show that. And yes Gaiden at the time could have been canon and seen as such. RE4 changes this now. But before, Gaiden's story fit just as well and expanded on giving Barry his game.

You also seem to be confused. Scrapped material doesn't matter. I still stand by that. What I refer to (Code Veronica, Gaiden, RE3's epilogues) exist as final products. What they scrapped for one reason or another (like Barry in RE5's campaign) just showed that they had these characters in mind for future products to continue upon. But alas they were missed opportunities and became nothing. Which is unfortunate.

And if I have to wait for your translations you'll excuse me for not taking your developer paraphrases too seriously.

[News Bot]

Hunk never ended, but his game did.... Which means zilch. The character was prominent enough to be recurring and his epilogue and file show that. And yes Gaiden at the time could have been canon and seen as such. RE4 changes this now. But before, Gaiden's story fit just as well and expanded on giving Barry his game.

You also seem to be confused. Scrapped material doesn't matter. I still stand by that. What I refer to (Code Veronica, Gaiden, RE3's epilogues) exist as final products. What they scrapped for one reason or another (like Barry in RE5's campaign) just showed that they had these characters in mind for future products to continue upon. But alas they were missed opportunities and became nothing. Which is unfortunate.

Gaiden couldn't have been canon because it was written as non-canon. Stop trying to go against the people who wrote it. Plus, it contradicted BH3 (two years after BH3 was released). Leon was always a government agent. He never worked for an "underground anti-Umbrella organization" that doesn't exist anywhere in the series universe. The only other time it is mentioned is by the same writer in Wesker's Report, and that's because that was written before the Epilogue Files in BH3 were (since CODE:Veronica's scenario was complete while BH3's scenario was still being developed). They simply adapted that mistake into a non-canon game.

Also, Leon dies in GAIDEN. But was somehow appearing in a game being developed at the exact same time?

For example, even though the novels written by American authors have permission from CAPCOM, the details of the setting such as the organizational structure of Umbrella Corp and the key characters are completely different from the game. The Chinese comic book version that I referred to earlier also diverges significantly from the official plot. The Drama Albums are similarly different, and is written so that fans can enjoy it as a parallel "what-if" universe.

Was the GameBoy Color game "BIOHAZARD GAIDEN" ever intended to be canon at any stage?

GAIDEN was written as a parallel "what-if" universe similar to the Drama Albums, as its name suggests.

Parallel "what-if" universe is precisely what Operation Raccoon City is stated to be, also. You can't have one of them canon and then the other not, and you can't go against the intentions of the writers who flat-out say they aren't canon. Your arguments are a merry-go-round of flailing nonsense lacking any definitive evidence or sources outside of personal conjecture and speculation.